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Message
re: Judge blocks Trump's order restricting birthright citizenship
Posted on 7/10/25 at 2:03 pm to back9Tiger
Posted on 7/10/25 at 2:03 pm to back9Tiger
quote:
I thought the USSC sorted this shite out.
They did not. They ruled that a district judge cannot make a ruling and say it affects the entire country -- unless it involves a class action suit.
The specific issue of birthright citizenship has yet to be adjudicated. There is no guaranteed Trump will win on this. I think you can certainly argue that originally it applied to freed slaves and their offspring, but there are precedents since then that expanded its scope. The Roberts court may well tell Trump that it is a legislative issue or one that requires an amendment.
0
Posted on 7/10/25 at 2:04 pm to vl100butch
quote:
A constitutional amendment is one way to solve the problem, however simply legislatively defining the rules for birthright citizenship would be a big help.
I considered that, but it would still be vulnerable to a court's interpretation of its constitutionality, and it just seems so fundamental, that citizenship should be defined in the Constitution once and for all.
Posted on 7/10/25 at 2:07 pm to Harry Boutte
quote:
The solution is a constitutional amendment to change the law,
Where in the constitution is birthright citizenship found?
This post was edited on 7/10/25 at 2:08 pm
Posted on 7/10/25 at 2:11 pm to ifyoubuildit
quote:
Most people don’t think the existing law grants birth right citizenship as it is being applied today because the law was intended to address freed slaves after the civil war, not mass illegal migration from other countries.
In before SFP comes in and says "Well, if they didn't intend it for illegal immigrants from other countries, whey didn't they exclude them when writing the amendment."
Posted on 7/10/25 at 2:12 pm to Havoc
quote:
Where in the constitution is birthright citizenship found?
This has been interpreted as such:
quote:
Fourteenth Amendment
Section 1
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
But then you knew that.
Posted on 7/10/25 at 2:13 pm to WeeWee
quote:
So a fetus in New Jersey is entitled to citizenship but can be aborted. Oh that’s a fun can of worms to open.
Posted on 7/10/25 at 2:37 pm to mindbreaker
BS map Mexico is by line.
In Mexico, citizenship by birth is granted based on jus sanguinis (right of blood) and jus soli (right of soil). This means that if you are born in Mexico to at least one Mexican parent, you are a Mexican citizen regardless of your parents' nationality. Additionally, if you are born outside of Mexico but one or both of your parents are Mexican citizens, you are also a Mexican citizen by birth.
AT least one Mexican parent
Posted on 7/10/25 at 3:27 pm to MemphisGuy
quote:
In before SFP comes in and says "Well, if they didn't intend it for illegal immigrants from other countries, whey didn't they exclude them when writing the amendment."
-intend
+anticipate
Posted on 7/10/25 at 4:59 pm to Harry Boutte
quote:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
A non citizen of the US is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, they are subject to the jurisdiction of the country they came from. Example, if the pregnant Chinese lady comes to the US to have a baby, she is not subject to the jurisdiction of the US, she is subject to the jurisdiction of China.
If said lady had a legal issue while in the US, the Chinese embassy would involve themselves in the legal matter for their citizen. This is an example of jurisdiction thereof. If another country claims citizenship of a non citizen, they are not subject to the jurisdiction of the US.
Do not confuse the laws with jurisdiction. Everyone in the country is subject to the laws of the US, but under the jurisdiction of another home country. Same for a US citizen traveling to another country. You have to have US provided documents to legally enter another country because you are under the jurisdiction of the US, but while in that country you must abide by their laws.
It can be looked at from another viewpoint. In the case of the Chinese baby, when that baby returns to China with the mother as an infant, does China recognize the baby as a US citizen? Would China allow the US embassy to intervene in that baby's affairs on China soil? What country has a superior claim on the affairs of a person in the host country?
This post was edited on 7/10/25 at 5:18 pm
Posted on 7/10/25 at 7:16 pm to fwtex
quote:
Do not confuse the laws with jurisdiction
And yet, curiously, no judge who has studied law extensively, in over 150 years, has agreed with you. Why is that, do you suppose? Why has the 14th never been interpreted the way you think it should be?
Posted on 7/10/25 at 7:56 pm to back9Tiger
This will be decided by USSC, this was always the next move. Nothing unexpected here
Posted on 7/10/25 at 8:00 pm to Harry Boutte
quote:
Why has the 14th never been interpreted the way you think it should be?
You mean except for the Congress that wrote the amendment interpreting that way.
And except for the SCOTUS in Elk vs. Wilkins interpreting it that way.
So not “never” at all.
Posted on 7/10/25 at 8:10 pm to the808bass
quote:
So not “never” at all.
How could all those (probably) millions of babies born here been wrongly given US citizenship for 150 years?
It's as if y'all think wishful thinking makes things true.
Posted on 7/11/25 at 5:35 pm to Harry Boutte
quote:
How could all those (probably) millions of babies born here been wrongly given US citizenship for 150 years?
By the Justice in Wong Kim Ark purposefully misinterpreting “subject to the jurisdiction.” Any other facile questions?
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