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Started By
Message
re: Isn’t repealing net neutrality just going back to how it was for decades?
Posted on 12/4/17 at 11:10 am to Korkstand
Posted on 12/4/17 at 11:10 am to Korkstand
quote:
The most important argument, IMO, is the fact that a lack of NN rules means ISPs are free to tax private industry as they see fit. This has the effect that large ISPs can control every market that relies on the internet. This is an objectively bad thing.
So some could say its a good thing? I dont understand the argument and all the crying over it
2
Posted on 12/4/17 at 11:17 am to SDVTiger
quote:How could it possibly be a good thing? Allowing private entities to tax one another is antithetical to a free market.
So some could say its a good thing?
quote:Well, frick, I'm kind of running out of simple ways to explain it. If you don't understand the problem with allowing a handful of companies to decide which other companies and industries are able to compete and grow, then I'm not sure I can help you.
I dont understand the argument and all the crying over it
Posted on 12/4/17 at 11:21 am to SDVTiger
You don’t understand how government created monopolies are a bad thing?
Posted on 12/4/17 at 11:28 am to Korkstand
quote:
How could it possibly be a good thing?
You said is was objectively a bad thing
quote:
Well, frick, I'm kind of running out of simple ways to explain it.
I guess your arguement is weak. i will just continue paying for lighting speed and not let it bother me
Posted on 12/4/17 at 11:31 am to PrimeTime Money
Because they are benefiting from it currently
Posted on 12/4/17 at 11:37 am to SDVTiger
quote:Yeah, exactly. So again, how can it possibly be a good thing?
You said is was objectively a bad thing
quote:
I guess your arguement is weak.
The argument is complex and nuanced. If you don't understand it, I'll let you guess what the "weak" point is in this exchange. quote:And this statement highlights the problem. You STILL don't understand that you will be happily and ignorantly paying a company to manipulate markets.
i will just continue paying for lighting speed and not let it bother me
It's pretty sad the state we're in, where people don't care if they're being led around like sheep.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 11:48 am to SDVTiger
quote:
You said is was objectively a bad thing
Stifles innovation and growth by letting ISP's extract fees from anyone that wants to use the internet beyond what they already pay. Pay to play middleman where there wasn’t one before, and they can crush the competition if they choose. The only people this benefits are the large ISP's so yes it is objectively bad.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 11:50 am to Korkstand
quote:
And this statement highlights the problem. You STILL don't understand that you will be happily and ignorantly paying a company to manipulate markets. It's pretty sad the state we're in, where people don't care if they're being led around like sheep.
Exactly, I don’t understand the logic of those who support repeal. They will be worse off, but have such strong opinions on it. They effectively want to be worse off which boggles the mind.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 11:52 am to DavidTheGnome
quote:
Exactly, I don’t understand the logic of those who support repeal.
That title II has disasterous potential for the American consumer.
Unless you just have tremendous faith in government
Posted on 12/4/17 at 11:56 am to PrimeTime Money
quote:
I may be totally mistaken, but wasn’t “net neutrality” implemented during the Obama administration?
And wouldn’t repealing it just put everything back to how it was?
What was wrong with the way it was before?
There was nothing wrong with how it was before.
But the before was when there was an understanding amongst companies, not the codification of the understanding after companies decided they can exploit their preferential positions for more money in spite of not actually providing additional services.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 12:41 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:How so? People say this a lot, but it seems to just be conservative fear-mongering.
That title II has disasterous potential for the American consumer.
quote:That I do not. But I tend to analyze a given situation with logic and reason, rather than blind fear. It should be quite obvious that our government has done some things right. It should also be obvious that it has done some things wrong. Given the state of the ISP market, and the importance of the internet to our daily lives and the broader economy, the right thing for government to do here is to step in and regulate.
Unless you just have tremendous faith in government
Posted on 12/4/17 at 1:14 pm to Korkstand
quote:
quote:
That title II has disasterous potential for the American consumer.
How so? People say this a lot, but it seems to just be conservative fear-mongering.
Oh dear god.
shite like that is why we don't have rational, intelligent discussions anymore. It's all partisan shite flinging hyper partisan hacks
Posted on 12/4/17 at 1:17 pm to RogerTheShrubber
I mean...not that I don’t agree with you, but you didn’t answered his question.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 1:22 pm to Salmon
quote:
mean...not that I don’t agree with you, but you didn’t answered his question.
I'm going to refuse to have discussions with irrational people but I'll tell you.
Title II grants incredible regulatory power to government like other utilities, which somehow find ways to limit competition, set up cronies and highly regulate service and pricing.
It's overkill with very negative potential. Amend the thing and try again. Most people would support without the overkill of title II
Posted on 12/4/17 at 1:25 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
That title II has disasterous potential for the American consumer.
Unless you just have tremendous faith in government
So advocate for a better legislative fix and vote for the people that will advance that.
It’s really hard to take seriously someone making the argument about catastrophic future harm that we haven’t actually seen evidence of when the abscence of which we HAVE observed actual and trending harm. Which necessitated the action in the first place.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 1:26 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
So advocate for a better legislative fi
Yeah that's been my point for months. Repeated over and over
Posted on 12/4/17 at 1:28 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
I'm going to refuse to have discussions with irrational people but I'll tell you.
I love that you are simultaneously talking about the grave potential future harm of Title II yet to materialize, while chastising those that point to the observed and trending future harm of having no Net Neutrality. While simultaneously calling people intellectual hacks.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 1:29 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Yeah that's been my point for months. Repeated over and over
And in the meantime we need to keep addressing what has actually been harmful, not what has the potential to be but which we have no evidence of happening so far.
When the cost outweighs the benefit we can talk. Until then, I’ll be behind you for a legislative fix but I will point out how silly it is to in lieu of that advocate for a policy that will re-invite already observed anti consumer behavior because of unrealized fears from the measure that helped actually mitigate that harm.
This post was edited on 12/4/17 at 1:33 pm
Posted on 12/4/17 at 1:30 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Oh dear god.
shite like that is why we don't have rational, intelligent discussions anymore. It's all partisan shite flinging hyper partisan hacks
I'm about as middle of the road as you'll find on this board.
Posted on 12/4/17 at 1:32 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
quote:
I'm going to refuse to have discussions with irrational people but I'll tell you.
I love that you are simultaneously talking about the grave potential future harm of Title II yet to materialize, while chastising those that point to the observed and trending future harm of having no Net Neutrality. While simultaneously calling people intellectual hacks.
You're so far off base here it's ridiculous, but I expect no less. Biased people have biases.
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