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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
19514 posts

Is the US right to cry foul about forced technology transfer to do business in China--
SCMP article was same title as thread

Very good article all concerned about the tariff talks should read.

I have been telling readers that this tariff war with China is about IP theft and forced partnerships in China. It is for the benefit of the US multinational companies seeking to do business in China----that is all it is about contrary to the opinions of many posters here and many people across the country. It is not about jobs in the USA per se nor is it about cheap trinkets or even Chinese steel.

I have also been saying the best way to protect your IP---don't build plants in China.

I hate IP theft and I am happy the US has strong patent laws. Those laws have allowed US companies invest to develop great new technology. Now we want Chinese companies and others in China to have the same protection and be able to profit from that protection. Why that is a goal of the US is beyond me but in reality that is exactly what we are doing. We are doing it at the expense of US consumers and US manufacturers needing intermediate products from China for US manufacturing operations.

Some exerts:

quote:

Of the many criticisms of China from the Donald Trump administration, those on forced technology transfer have been among the fiercest.
It is a chronic and prevalent problem that Beijing uses “a variety of tools” to pressure the transfer of technologies to Chinese companies, the United States argues, and more tolerance of it would cause heavier losses to the US, especially with Beijing pursuing world dominance in many industries.

The Chinese government has rejected such accusations both publicly and in government-to-government communications.

Forced technology transfer (FTT) means that when a foreign company wants to enter the Chinese market, it has to surrender its technology to Chinese companies through a joint venture agreement, or in some cases regulations. Some foreign companies have said they were forced to do so.

US pushes ‘needed structural changes’ on forced technology transfers

If there were coercion, Chinese officials claim, foreign companies could choose not to invest in China. If multinationals make hefty profits on the mainland then they benefit from investing in China under terms which are neither discriminatory nor coercive, they have said.


A valid point--note they do not even try to say they have not been getting IP. In the past they were simply saying this is how we do business in country if you don't like it don't do business here.

quote:

According to the office of the United States Trade Representative (USTR), China’s foreign ownership restrictions, such as those for joint ventures and equity, and various administrative review and licensing processes, require or push for technology transfer from US companies.

In an update in November, the USTR said China’s practices relating to technology transfer, intellectual property and innovation were “unreasonable or discriminatory and burden or restrict US commerce”.

Evidence it cited was mainly surveys conducted by business chambers in China. Last July, the 2018 China Business Report of the American Chamber of Commerce in Shanghai stated that 21 per cent of 434 respondent member companies had felt pressure to transfer technology in exchange for market access.

This pressure was particularly evident in hi-tech industries, with 44 per cent of aerospace and 41 per cent of chemical companies having reported facing “notable” pressure to transfer technology.


The quote in bold is language directly from the 301 filed at the USTR office. A directive interested Americans that want to know the real facts about this trade war should read.

quote:

The USTR has acknowledged the unlikelihood of a company accusing China directly, because there would be concerns about possible retaliation against their business in China.


This is something Trump is having to deal with---no doubt Apple and Boeing and Caterpillar and others are expressing huge concerns that the trade war may force them out of China. (each of them have met with Ross privately.) This pressure is why I believe the trade war will be over soon.

Another reason I suspect the trade war will end soon is that China is trying to throw the US a bone:

quote:

Huo Jianguo, former research head with the Ministry of Commerce, said: “China has always claimed forced technology transfer does not exist.

“The latest development is Beijing recognises the problem may exist at local government levels as part of preconditions for market access, so it is addressing the issue through legislation.”

A draft foreign investment law was revealed last month as pressure mounted on Beijing. It states that forced technology transfer through administrative measures is prohibited, and technology cooperation should be “based on voluntarily agreed terms and business practices”.

Chinese analysts said this was a potential guarantee for multinationals, but foreign businesses are sceptical about enforcement of the law.

Shi Yinhong, director of the Centre on American Studies at Renmin University, said China was likely to agree to set up a monitoring mechanism so that the US could keep an eye on enforcement.

“If the US does not press too hard for a radical change, China is likely to make concessions,” Shi said.

Such promises are not expected to dispel fears and distrust from the US that have built as China has become a threat to it, while the involvement of China’s government in its economy remains heavy, analysts said.



Also in the article is video about the importance of foreign investment in China.

The trade war will soon end because:

1) Trump recognizes the war has hurt the economy and the stock market
2) China is making changes regarding IP that will help both US and Chinese companies and they recognize the US will want to monitor the effectiveness of these new laws
3) China needs foreign investment and US companies want to invest there.

Long thread I know.

Try to at least read it and the article.
This post was edited on 1/10 at 3:21 pm


LSUTIGER in TEXAS
USA Fan
Member since Jan 2008
10789 posts
 Online 

re: Is the US right to cry foul about forced technology transfer to do business in China--
I B Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeman is back!


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211
The Maj
Alabama Fan
Member since Sep 2016
5427 posts
 Online 

re: Is the US right to cry foul about forced technology transfer to do business in China--
Was your time in that Chinese prison rough? We were all praying they would keep you...
This post was edited on 1/10 at 2:31 pm


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120
MF Doom
Houston Astros Fan
It's me. Hello
Member since Oct 2008
5961 posts

re: Is the US right to cry foul about forced technology transfer to do business in China--
frick China and frick your undying love for them. Chengdu sucks


Jbird
Iowa Fan
In Odramaville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
54030 posts
 Online 

re: Is the US right to cry foul about forced technology transfer to do business in China--
I B Chinaman, the lead laced products your mythical company imports has affected your brain.


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140
I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
19514 posts

re: Is the US right to cry foul about forced technology transfer to do business in China--
Mr. Doom you can leave that post there and look like an ignorant buffoon or you can try to explain how an opponent of these huge tariffs on Americans can be describe as having "undying love for them".

Meanwhile welcome to the very small club of posters IB Freeman does not respond too.
This post was edited on 1/10 at 2:42 pm


MF Doom
Houston Astros Fan
It's me. Hello
Member since Oct 2008
5961 posts

re: Is the US right to cry foul about forced technology transfer to do business in China--
Do you need a proxy or vpn to post on tigerdroppings from China?
This post was edited on 1/10 at 2:53 pm


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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
19514 posts

re: Is the US right to cry foul about forced technology transfer to do business in China--
Just today:

quote:

China's commerce ministry said the discussions "established a foundation for the resolution of each others' concerns".
They agreed to maintain close contact, the statement said.



The Chinese are going to give Trump something he can declare as victory and end their retaliatory tariffs on agriculture and Trump will roll back many of the tariffs now in place.

No way Trump risk what further expanding tariffs will do to the stock market.



steadytiger
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2007
1993 posts

re: Is the US right to cry foul about forced technology transfer to do business in China--
Naive me. Why don't companies sell their technology to shell companies, which they own separately from their business,, and rent the use of the technology from those companies?


BlackPawnMartyr
LSU Fan
Houston, TX
Member since Dec 2010
12280 posts
 Online 

re: Is the US right to cry foul about forced technology transfer to do business in China--
:DNR: ib chinaman


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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
19514 posts

re: Is the US right to cry foul about forced technology transfer to do business in China--
IDK. All of this IP theft is happening when US companies attempt to build plants in the US. The Chinese force them to have Chinese partners--namely the government and thus the IP is visible to them.

That is all this trade war is about.

How much more should you pay for goods and services in the US so that Boeing can feel safer as they build plants in China???

The general consensus among the critics here is whatever Trump says goes.


goatmilker
LSU Fan
2014 drunkin Bobby award winner!
Member since Feb 2009
44910 posts

re: Is the US right to cry foul about forced technology transfer to do business in China--
quote:

No way Trump risk what further expanding tariffs will do to the stock market.


I believe you said something like..."no way Trump ever wins this trade war and the American people lose in the end" .


Wtxtiger
LSU Fan
Gonzales la
Member since Feb 2011
3672 posts

re: Is the US right to cry foul about forced technology transfer to do business in China--
I hope their economy crashes and, with hundreds of millions of them starving to death, the people storm the government and hang every communist party member. I also hope every traitor American that put their own wealth over their country, whiling laying off Americans to move entire industries to China, lose their arse and go bankrupt.


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trinidadtiger
Member since Jun 2017
2457 posts
 Online 

re: Is the US right to cry foul about forced technology transfer to do business in China--
Uh IB, I dont think the IP theft is just in chini with companies doing business there, lets see let me do a quick check of the FBI, you would trust the director of the FBI as a legit source concerning chini and IP theft right?......

Wray said that investigations into economic espionage linked to China were taking place in every US state and that China wanted to become the "sole dominant superpower."


Wtxtiger
LSU Fan
Gonzales la
Member since Feb 2011
3672 posts

re: Is the US right to cry foul about forced technology transfer to do business in China--
quote:

China wanted to become the "sole dominant superpowe


Blockade their coast, not letting any shipping in at all, and starve their asses to death until they overthrow their government


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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
19514 posts

re: Is the US right to cry foul about forced technology transfer to do business in China--
quote:

"no way Trump ever wins this trade war and the American people lose in the end" .



He will not win it in the way most of you think. He is going to declare victory on any concession and most here will not know whether it is a big deal or not. (Look the deal with Canada and Mexico in the large scheme of things is only a minor tweaking of NAFTA EXCEPT for the horrible steel tariffs. I doubt the deal holds together if Trump does not do something to lower these tariffs on Canada.)

China will adopt some advance in IP protection and will reduce requirements for financial investments in China and Trump will call that a victory.

The American people are not winning today and just how will helping these large multinational companies invest in China help the average American???

The value of the S&P 500 is almost $3.5 trillion less today than on the day Trump implemented the expanded tariffs in September. Fortunately today the market seems to believe the threatened March tariffs will not happen--I know that disappoints many here but it simply isn't going to happen. Should it happen it would not surprise me at all the S&P gave up another 20%--Trump knows that too.



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jimmy the leg
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2007
4978 posts

re: Is the US right to cry foul about forced technology transfer to do business in China--
quote:

I have been telling readers that this tariff war with China is about IP theft


That was me amigo.

quote:

Chinese steel. 


This was you...kind of




And...

quote:

The trade war will soon end because: 

1) Trump recognizes the war has hurt the economy...WTF?
3) China needs foreign investment and US companies want to invest there. 




This post was edited on 1/10 at 7:27 pm


I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
19514 posts

re: Is the US right to cry foul about forced technology transfer to do business in China--
quote:


Wray said that investigations into economic espionage linked to China were taking place in every US state and that China wanted to become the "sole dominant superpower."


That espionage violates US law today and is not what these tariffs are about. We have the ability and right to prosecute that today.

Boeing plans to build a massive assembly plant there. They are projecting to do $1 Trillion in business over the next decade in China. They want the Chinese to do more for IP protection at that facility and other facilities they intend to build there. This is but one example of what these tariffs on American consumers is about.

Apple's business in China is huge and is by far the fasting growing part of their business in percentage growth terms. They too want more IP protection.

Read the OP. The Chinese see no problem with forcing foreign companies building in China to take on Chinese partners and then the partners in effect own part of the IP.

Fortunately for us tariff sufferers in America China seems to be seeing the benefit to their country of having more foreign investment and in protection IP in a more aggressive manner.

You avid Trump trade war proponents are fighting for US companies wishing to build goods in China and not so much build them here and ship them there.

I say Americans should not be punished to help these special interest---they can simply not do business in China.

But you guys live in your own world and seem to like big government, big tariffs and the like if they are proposed by Trump. Don't call yourself conservative.


I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
19514 posts

re: Is the US right to cry foul about forced technology transfer to do business in China--
I have been talking about the 301 directive since day one. Clearly in the directive IP protection and looser foreign investment requirements for US companies in China were a goal.

The idea that the Chinese economy is near collapse is just laughable. They are still projecting 6% growth in 2019---twice that of the USA but significantly less than normal for China thus all the talk about their economy slowing down. Even if they miss by 50% their economy will be growing about as much as outs.



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Powerman
LSU Fan
Virginia
Member since Jan 2004
138050 posts

re: Is the US right to cry foul about forced technology transfer to do business in China--
quote:

frick China

This


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