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Started By
Message
re: Is the Libertarian Party of Louisianan a real thing?
Posted on 3/21/24 at 9:31 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 3/21/24 at 9:31 am to SlowFlowPro
The 2A does indeed only apply to American citizens.
The Second Amendment and Citizenship: Why “The People” Does Not Include Noncitizens
5 minutes on DuckDuckGo, and another 5 minutes to read. Geez, you call yourself a lawyer?
quote:
To summarize, the Supreme Court first determined that “the people” of the Second Amendment follows the Verdugo-Urquidez framework, a case in which the Supreme Court wrote that aliens do enjoy some constitutional protections. Yet, the Heller Court also repeated over and over that the right belongs to “Americans” and “citizens.” Is this an oversight, or an unintended contradiction in the Second Amendment’s scope? After all, the ultimate holding of Heller did not depend on whether “the people” included noncitizens. Or is this muddling of the Verdugo-Urquidez definition of “the people” a more deliberate practice? Additionally, the Supreme Court’s reading of the prefatory clause inserted an element of collective security into a right Heller held to be individual.
The Second Amendment and Citizenship: Why “The People” Does Not Include Noncitizens
5 minutes on DuckDuckGo, and another 5 minutes to read. Geez, you call yourself a lawyer?
This post was edited on 3/21/24 at 9:42 am
Posted on 3/21/24 at 9:32 am to tommy2tone1999
Imagine hiring a dude with almost a half a million posts on td
Posted on 3/21/24 at 9:43 am to SDVTiger
quote:
Imagine hiring a dude with almost a half a million posts on td
Him a Rog are both incels that think being libertarian idealogues on TD is going to change the world
Posted on 3/21/24 at 9:46 am to Midtiger farm
quote:\
Him a Rog are both incels that think being libertarian idealogues
I take it you enjoy current restrictions on firearms.
You would be ok with "assault rifle bans."
Because guns are dangerous and people need protecting. Is that you?
Posted on 3/21/24 at 9:48 am to Midtiger farm
quote:
Him a Rog are both incels that think being libertarian idealogues on TD is going to change the world
Exactly they are both hard core leftys
Posted on 3/21/24 at 9:48 am to tommy2tone1999
quote:
5 minutes on DuckDuckGo, and another 5 minutes to read. Geez, you call yourself a lawyer?
You posted a (poorly written) law review article by a MAGA pundit
quote:
The language “necessary to the security of a free State” suggested to the Heller Court that an armed citizenry “is useful in repelling invasions and suppressing insurrections” and is “better able to resist tyranny.”80 Does the collective aspect of the Second Amendment conflict with the individual right to self-defense? No, it does not, the Court wrote.81 Instead, collective security is one important result of the right to bear arms, but it is not “the only reason Americans valued the ancient right; most undoubtedly thought it even more important for self-defense and hunting.”82 The Heller Court also wrote that around the time of the Founding, “some state constitutions used the term ‘the people’ to refer to the people collectively, in contrast to ‘citizen,’ which was used to invoke individual rights.”83 These findings suggest that the right to bear arms shares a common cause with citizenship and the preservation of the common good.
He literally provides evidence that contradict his conclusory statement
Again, from his own work:
quote:
To summarize, the Supreme Court first determined that “the people” of the Second Amendment follows the Verdugo-Urquidez framework, a case in which the Supreme Court wrote that aliens do enjoy some constitutional protections.
quote:
Courts have held “the people” of the First and Fourth Amendments to include noncitizens, even including illegal aliens inside the country.
quote:
In both the First and Fourth Amendment contexts, this can result in curtailed rights.109 The Supreme Court has established that all the freedoms of the First Amendment apply to aliens inside U.S. borders110: “[O]nce an alien lawfully enters and resides in this country he becomes invested with the rights guaranteed by the Constitution to all people within our borders. Such rights include those protected by the First [Amendment] .
His 2 counters involve deportations, which are not applicable to a discussion about rights. Nobody is arguing this person can't be deported (assuming if legal due process is followed)
quote:
But this right is not absolute, especially when applied to aliens.112 In Harisiades v. Shaughnessy113342 U.S. 580 (1952). in 1952, the Supreme Court allowed the deportation of non-U.S. citizen Communist Party members despite their First Amendment claims.114 Because statutes affecting aliens overlap with the foreign relations power of the “political branches of government,” the Supreme Court afforded greater leniency to restrictions on their freedom to join the Communist Party.115 Even though these noncitizens were engaged in activities in which citizens would be free to participate, the Court upheld their deportation.116
This was not the first time the Court had allowed Congress to take action against a noncitizen for exercising what would be inalienable First Amendment rights for a citizen.117 In United States ex rel. Turner v. Williams,118 the Supreme Court upheld a deportation order for an alien anarchist in the face of a First Amendment challenge.
Deportation is not applicable to this discussion in any way.
I can glance at the rest later, b/c I have to go to court now
Posted on 3/21/24 at 9:49 am to SDVTiger
quote:
Exactly they are both hard core leftys
Says the person who supports leftist economics
Posted on 3/21/24 at 9:52 am to SlowFlowPro
You’re an advocate for illegals. “Conservatives”
Posted on 3/21/24 at 9:53 am to momentoftruth87
quote:
You’re an advocate for owning firearms
Fixed for truth.
Posted on 3/21/24 at 9:54 am to momentoftruth87
I'm an advocate for our rights and decreasing government oppression into individuals' lives as much as is possible to keep society functioning at a high level.
This applies to in groups, out groups, good guys, bad guys, etc.
This applies to in groups, out groups, good guys, bad guys, etc.
Posted on 3/21/24 at 9:58 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You posted a (poorly written) law review article by a MAGA pundit
Because your opinion is so much wiser
One of the main purposes of the Second Amendment is for the CITIZEN'S to organize into a militia for the purpose of overthrowing the government, should it become a tyranny. If foreigners who enter this country illegally take up arms against the government, that is considered an invasion and an act of war. Funny you could not realize that ...
quote:
The language “necessary to the security of a free State” suggested to the Heller Court that an armed citizenry “is useful in repelling invasions and suppressing insurrections” and is “better able to resist tyranny.”80 Does the collective aspect of the Second Amendment conflict with the individual right to self-defense? No, it does not, the Court wrote.81 Instead, collective security is one important result of the right to bear arms, but it is not “the only reason Americans valued the ancient right; most undoubtedly thought it even more important for self-defense and hunting.”82 The Heller Court also wrote that around the time of the Founding, “some state constitutions used the term ‘the people’ to refer to the people collectively, in contrast to ‘citizen,’ which was used to invoke individual rights.”83 These findings suggest that the right to bear arms shares a common cause with citizenship and the preservation of the common good.
Posted on 3/21/24 at 10:08 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Says the person who supports leftist economics
Thats gold coming from a defender of all things left
Posted on 3/21/24 at 10:10 am to tommy2tone1999
quote:
One of the main purposes of the Second Amendment is for the CITIZEN'S to organize into a militia for the purpose of overthrowing the government,
And another was self defense.
Now go ahead and argue the liberal point again... Ya'll are doing great at forming pro gun control arguments.
Posted on 3/21/24 at 10:15 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
firearms. You would be ok with "assault rifle bans
Has zero to do with letting illegals have guns
2 totally different policies
This is what idiots like you do - try to make everything all encompassing and black and white to try to prove some kind of freedom clout
Posted on 3/21/24 at 10:16 am to Midtiger farm
quote:
Has zero to do with letting illegals have guns
If a dude bought an 80% kit and made a gun, more power to him.
frick the government. edit: shite, one of you rubes will probably report me to the ATF.
Do you think more gun laws will mean less guns in criminal hands?
This post was edited on 3/21/24 at 10:18 am
Posted on 3/21/24 at 10:19 am to Midtiger farm
quote:
This is what idiots like you do - try to make everything all encompassing and black and white to try to prove some kind of freedom clout
Will banning guns in the hands of illegals make you safer?
Say it.. Youre so close.
Posted on 3/21/24 at 10:21 am to RogerTheShrubber
Do you think arming illegals will fix our immigration?
Posted on 3/21/24 at 10:25 am to BuckyCheese
Yes they are retarded. I left the party when their facebook page started talking about 9/11 conspiracies on 9/11.
In this case they are completely wrong. Illegals are not citizens thus the Bill of Rights does not apply to them.
In this case they are completely wrong. Illegals are not citizens thus the Bill of Rights does not apply to them.
Posted on 3/21/24 at 11:26 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
And another was self defense.
Now go ahead and argue the liberal point again... Ya'll are doing great at forming pro gun control arguments.
It's all or nothing, you cannot separate the two. If you give them the right to self defense, you also give them the right to overthrow the government. So you support giving foreigners the right to overthrow the United States government, and planting their flag on the Capital? Nice to know.
This post was edited on 3/21/24 at 11:59 am
Posted on 3/21/24 at 11:39 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
I find it interesting that all of a sudden people on this board are screaming for more gun control.
I find it interesting that people think letting an army of illegal invaders carry weapons is a brilliant idea. Let's let millions of people, including communist spies and terrorists, into our country when they don't share our values and let them have weapons. What could go wrong?
Do you also support letting foreigners buy farmland and land around military bases? If not, why are they then allowed to purchase weapons? If you do, then you should try using common sense.
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