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re: Impressive support for Intelligent Design
Posted on 3/12/26 at 7:32 pm to FooManChoo
Posted on 3/12/26 at 7:32 pm to FooManChoo
I just think it's crazy that people think them reading a Bible in English is the divine word of God.
Posted on 3/12/26 at 9:42 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:Feel free to "obliterate" it. It's not disrespectful to disagree and argue for your position.
... and I am trying desperately not to be disrespectful in obliterating that "case."
quote:Appreciate the kind words
I like you as a poster.
I very much appreciate your contributions here.
When it's Foo against some """intellectual""" 'atheist,' I've been your deliberate and invertible ally, as I'll continue to be.
quote:I'd like you to state your full case, then. I recall you mentioning Psalm 19. I agree that all of creation points to God and declares His presence and power. Romans 1 teaches likewise.
But the Scriptures do NOT teach """young earth."""
The Scriptures do NOT REMOTELY teach that 'creation' was done in a short amount of time.
Sorry!
But I've cited MULTIPLE examples.
What I disagree with is that Psalm 19 is a proof text for trusting fallible man's interpretations of nature over the clear word of God.
quote:I'm not perpetuating ignorance to support a biblical position. The literal day position (and therefore short timeframe for creation) was the majority opinion throughout church history. The confession my tradition adheres to (Westminster Confession of Faith) also states that God made all things in the span of 6 days. It wasn't until the last 200 years or so that the winds changed drastically within Christianity in terms of interpreting the Bible about creation. The reasoning for the change was an attempt to interpret the Bible according to materialistic science.
PLEASE, do not perpetuate ignorance in the supposed name of misinterpreted scripture.
A plain reading of the Bible will not get you to long ages for creation, as I've said many times at this point. The grammar won't get you there; the writing style of Genesis won't get you there; the interpretation and usage by Moses, David, and all the way to Jesus and the Apostles won't get you there; and the theology of the Bible won't get you there.
Posted on 3/12/26 at 9:44 pm to dgnx6
quote:As far as any translation faithfully represents the Greek and Hebrew, it can rightly be considered the divine word of God.
I just think it's crazy that people think them reading a Bible in English is the divine word of God
If you would like to argue otherwise, please state your case.
Posted on 3/12/26 at 9:49 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:First, our understanding of the natural world is changing and being corrected and refined all the time. Much of what was taught with confidence in schools 100, 50, and 25 years ago has changed and is no longer true, or is no longer accurate.
I just don’t understand being so tied to a literal reading of a religious text so much so that it will make someone reject categorically our understanding of the natural world.
Second, I believe the Bible is the word of God, and since God cannot lie, the Bible must be true, in spite of what fallible men say.
Lastly, the Bible was not written to be interpreted any way we want. God has specific meanings for us to understand through that revelation. The book of Genesis, in particular, was not written as poetry or parable, but as history. The grammar and writing style point to this, as well as how the creation narrative is referenced all throughout the Bible. If the clear reading of Genesis is thrown out the window because it seems to be in conflict with modern scientific consensus, then the entire Bible is cast into doubt as being accurate and worthy of trust as God's word.
Posted on 3/12/26 at 9:53 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:I reject reading poetry as literal. I reject reading the wisdom literature as literal. I reject reading parables as literal. What I don't reject is reading history as literal. The writing style of the Scripture dictates how it should be interpreted.
He is rejecting a literal reading of the same religious text. That is the problem. He's admitted as much.
quote:I disagree with your interpretation. Psalm 19 doesn't mean that we need to interpret the Bible according to the wisdom of man. Psalm 19 merely states that creation is evidence of God's glory. It doesn't mean that whatever interpretations man proposes about the natural world is true and that the Bible should either be rejected or re-interpreted according to man's fallible understanding.
I hope in terms of my Psalms citation ("The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands."), he'll reconsider, and come around to a God-Science synergy.
Posted on 3/12/26 at 9:55 pm to jcaz
quote:Speaking on behalf of all Christians: no, we do not believe in a God who is "imaginary", "bearded", or a "man". God is a spirit, but the second person of the godhead took on a human nature, so that He is both God and man (but not only a man).
You think an imaginary bearded man in the sky runs the universe?
God is omnipotent, so He does "run the universe" according to His will, and you would do well to submit to Him and trust in the sacrifice of the God-man, Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of your sins before your end.
Posted on 3/13/26 at 4:35 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Second, I believe the Bible is the word of God, and since God cannot lie, the Bible must be true, in spite of what fallible men say.
I'm a Christian but it's undeniable that there are contradictions in the Bible. The widespread dogma of Biblical inerrancy is fairly new.
Posted on 3/13/26 at 5:33 am to FooManChoo
quote:
First, our understanding of the natural world is changing and being corrected and refined all the time. Much of what was taught with confidence in schools 100, 50, and 25 years ago has changed and is no longer true, or is no longer accurate.
This is a feature, not a bug.
Posted on 3/13/26 at 7:44 am to FooManChoo
quote:Of course you are, and in doing so you deny observations of "the work of his hands." In doing so, you're not supporting a Biblical position. You're supporting your own misdrawn position relative to it.
I'm not perpetuating ignorance to support a biblical position.
quote:Heliocentrism was regarded as heretical until the last 200 years or so. After all, the Bible plainly states "The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved." (Psalm 93:1), "He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved."(Psalm 104:5), "The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved." (1 Chronicles 16:30).
It wasn't until the last 200 years or so that the winds changed drastically within Christianity in terms of interpreting the Bible about creation.
In the Biblical account of the Gibeon affair, Joshua ordered the sun to stand still. Galileo narrowly avoided being burned at the stake by "admitting" that if heliocentrism was accurate, Joshua would have ordered the Earth to stand still, not the sun. So he "recanted" his questions as to geocentrism. The clerics who would have lit Galileo on fire interpreted the Bible EXACTLY as it is written, even if that interpretation was at demonstrable variance with "the work of his hands." It was a mistake then. It is a mistake now.
Issac Newton, who was first a phenom in Biblical scholarship (most folks don't know that), was pushed to science in part d/t his interest in Jeremiah's "fixed laws of heaven and earth." By definition, fixed laws of heaven and earth meant the universe was designed by a rational mind, it could be understood through rational study.
Francis Bacon, another man steeped in Biblical study, viewed science much as I do. It is a tool to fulfill providence and alleviate human suffering. For Bacon, studying nature was a religious duty. It complemented the Bible. "Test all things; hold fast what is good," (1 Thessalonians 5:21) was foundational to his construct of the Scientific Method.
God gives us the ability to observe, and further our understanding of existence and creation. Reliance on that ability is actually critical to Biblical understanding, not contradictory to it.
For you, I'd point out again the Bible addresses the inconsequence of time as a thing with God -- a day is as a thousand years, a thousand years ia as a day. There could be but one witness to creation. That account could be related by but one source. It is a source unconcerned with limits or definitions of time, and then related to man who is time-obsessed d/t mortality.
This post was edited on 3/13/26 at 7:47 am
Posted on 3/13/26 at 7:49 am to jcaz
quote:
You think an imaginary bearded man in the sky runs the universe?
No. I would say that if I believed that.
You, on the other hand, clearly believe that "nature" does things with a purpose. Thats.......interesting.
Posted on 3/13/26 at 10:09 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:
Are you a young earther too?
Yep
The God of the Bible is a big God and Jesus is wonderful.
Posted on 3/13/26 at 10:38 am to Flats
quote:
You, on the other hand, clearly believe that "nature" does things with a purpose. Thats.......interesting.
There’s a lot we don’t understand, I’ll acknowledge that. But let’s please stop rambling about scripture that is entirely based on faith.
I’d argue evolution actually proves intelligent design is real. Not some ridiculous idea that the earth is 6,000 years old and god created the universe in seven 24 hour days.
Posted on 3/13/26 at 11:22 am to j1897
quote:
Basically every invention you use in your modern life was created by a non christian.
Dunning-Kruger indeed
Posted on 3/13/26 at 5:10 pm to AUveritas
quote:I think you should consider what constitutes a true contradiction and then look into those alleged contradictions a bit more. The internet has made this a lot easier to talk about.
I'm a Christian but it's undeniable that there are contradictions in the Bible.
quote:I think you should check your church history on that.
The widespread dogma of Biblical inerrancy is fairly new.
Posted on 3/13/26 at 5:10 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:And yet much scientific dogma arises from being wrong.
This is a feature, not a bug.
Posted on 3/13/26 at 5:13 pm to jcaz
quote:
There’s a lot we don’t understand, I’ll acknowledge that. But let’s please stop rambling about scripture that is entirely based on faith.
I haven't mentioned scripture. You do know that not all of the people questioning evolution as a sufficient theory are religious, don't you? They're not saying God is the answer, they just think it's a shite theory that gets stretched well beyond credulity.
Posted on 3/13/26 at 5:17 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
And yet much scientific dogma arises from being wrong.
Explain what you mean by this.
Posted on 3/13/26 at 5:18 pm to Flats
quote:
they just think it's a shite theory that gets stretched well beyond credulity.
Why is it a shite theory in your estimation? Honestly, in reading through this thread, there are very few people that seem very familiar with what it says.
Posted on 3/13/26 at 5:29 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
Why is it a shite theory in your estimation?
The non-answers the experts have during debates with other experts. Or, sometimes, the total refusal to acknowledge the facts.
Everybody assumes that when Christians argue against evolution they're being driven by a worldview, and that's probably a safe assumption most of the time. But I've seen enough experts defend evolution that I know that's a two-way street.
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