re: If both political parties are on the side of Labor, what does this mean for capitalism?

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And when the little pygmies from pygmeland are imported?

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Sounds like you are afraid to compete against them.

Covid (2020 and 2021) exacerbated this problem. I'll let you figure out why. I'll drop you a hint.

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Labor force participation plummeted by more than 3 percentage points during the first two months of the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020, representing a decline of more than 8.2 million people. While about half of the drop was quickly regained, participation has stagnated at about 1 percentage point below its pre-pandemic level.

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Its a global economy. China can sell better cars for 30% less.

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They're not better.

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We vote politicians in who continually destroy the dollar. Thats where you should start.

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Time to change the subject I see....

No Rog, you are on the wrong side of this imported worker argument.

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Dont work for Big Finance.

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Just reserve those for the imports, right Rog?

No Americans needed at the largest, most powerful American businesses.

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The educated, credentialed, professional class is now demanding similar protectionist policies to what their lower class MAGA brethren were promised.

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Bruh what did you study in school other than your time at Law School?
Lawyers are the most privileged and protected group in the American economy.

Can we get a divorce lawyer from Texas for a Louisiana divorce?

Can we hire an illegal immigrant to file a lawsuit?

You can hire anyone from anywhere to change your oil and the consequences are laughable. If we try to use legal representation from anywhere but Louisiana the outcome will be a disaster.

“Removing the min wage and overly burdensome OSHA regulations would be pro-freedom, for 2 examples.”

The best we can with the federal minimum wage is leave it alone. It scarcely matters now—and therefore does no harm—due to wage inflation over time.

As for OSHA, I see where you’re going, but industry has largely adapted to that regulatory regime. Tweak it, perhaps, but simply by leaving things alone, business will do fine.

Where I believe “MAGA”, labor, and lovers of Liberty can find common ground is the curtailing or even dismantling of the eco-driven industrial policy of the Biden administration. These policies require massive subsidies and hamstring real markets. E.g., it’s “pro-labor” to free up US drilling for O&G because it provides numerous high paying jobs, both directly and secondarily as it will boost many forms of manufacturing. For a more specific example from the recent past, think “Keystone pipeline” and it’s not hard to see how the GOP can accurately sell itself as “pro-labor” while supporting free markets and less regulation.

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Back to top
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Its a global economy. China can sell better cars for 30% less.


They're not better.

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Similar quality, better tech and lower pricing.



One big takaway, BYDs rise lowered Tesla prices which is a win for us all.

H1B visas are government intervention into the job market. Wanting the government to issue fewer of them is an argument for less government intervention, not more.

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add in the consumer protection that MAGA now promotes (see: RFK's desired regulation of "Big pharma" and "Big Food")

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These industries are in their current state because of government intervention. Some government involvement will be necessary to unravel that damage.

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If college athletes can transfer whenever and play wherever immediately then why not this?

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Colleges are government institutions. The only way to get the government out of sports is to end college sports completely. There is no "small government" version of college sports.

The welfare state is killing unskilled labor markets in this country and fueling unchecked immigration. Maybe start there.

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We're talking about the state of capitalism as it exists today.

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Yes I know, and I think it is less free than a hypothetical completely closed immigration system.

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This was a much more capitalist system and, correspondingly, the period where America made the most growth prior to the world being destroyed in WW2. We became a power during this period of industrialization and development, largely because of the lack of government prohibiting this growth.

From that grew the inequality of freedom, which is where the Labor movement began, ultimately leading to immigration restrictions (largely based in labor protectionism). This friction between "natives" and "foreign competition" has existed since prior to the Revolutionary War.

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I find it hard to believe that you would be ok with all aspects of this era in our history. You allude to it with the reason the labor movement started which led to policy changes, but are you actually ok with all free market conditions that existed in that time? Would you want to go back to it?

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Yes, but the "less free market" is the immigration system itself. Not the H1B situation (which cuts from the intervention of the immigration system).

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But it's still more free than an outright prohibition of the opportunity for these people and companies employing them

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Explain more clearly why you think so.

The current system only benefits a few, facilitated by the state, and at the discretion of the state. This deteriorates conditions for both individuals and companies who don't have the same access.

Also it seems you more or less agree, or at least didn’t waste time disagreeing, with my assertion that this is soft indentured servitude. Let me ask you this, do you think the indentured servitude system from the 17th through 19th centuries was free market? Should people be allowed to benefit from that as long as they have the capital to purchase such an arrangement?

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Open borders = the most free/capitalist system

Closed immigration = the least free/capitalist system

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We're back to my very initial statement.

The only truly free market is open borders and globalization.

Do you actually want completely open borders without restriction? If so please defend your position.

Personally I don't think you do, you just like to paint certain avenues with labels that have emotional baggage with a lot of people in order to confuse them. This is what James Lindsay is the king of, which I'm sure you're a massive fan.

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The H1B carve out moves the needle from the closed to open, which makes it more freedom/capitalist based than the state otherwise. As I said in my initial reply:

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I believe I understand what you're trying to say, and the issue is that you are coming from the position of an overly regulatory state as the natural state, and not describing this overly regulatory State as over intervention in the market as the homeostasis from which we are discussing where policy should flow

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Yeah bro, we just got to get rid of the state bro. Let's strive to achieve freedom in our lifetime bro. End the FED bro.

I don't have time to argue about libertarian utopia that has no means of being achieved

Slo gets to post in TD all day, every day and still manage to stay employed.

#privileged