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Posted on 4/1/19 at 3:27 am to stuntman
quote:
I've wondered this exact same thing about taking the BAR exam. If you know the subject matter, why the frick does it matter if you learned it in a college setting or not?
Correct. See Huey Long.
quote:
I'm an employer (not a lot, just 3 people) and I'm not sure of the legalities of IQ tests for applicants. However, I'd be 100% in favor of it, along w/ a test on conscientiousness.
The IQ test is antiquated in the sense did it does not test raw ability accurately. Some of the terms are more geared towards people with a certain socioeconomic background and education
Posted on 4/1/19 at 4:56 am to THRILLHO
quote:
I know that hiring based on IQ tests are illegal (or I'm tarded), but what about SAT's?
Ok, I was intrigued with the thread title and opened it and I see where you are going with this. While the thrust of your description seems to be economic, I'm more interested in the premise to get smart kids into the work force before they are brainwashed and they (or we) loaded with debt. I am retired but worked in the oil and gas exploration business in a profession that requires a Masters degree. I think if we could identify the right kids with aptitude, they could be taught to perform in the jobs without college. It would not be easy and companies would have to take on a training responsibility they currently don't have but I think it could be done.
Posted on 4/1/19 at 5:05 am to THRILLHO
Serious question......
Why aren’t you thinking about starting your own company? You show no interests in your post besides being an employee! You’re better than that it seems
Why aren’t you thinking about starting your own company? You show no interests in your post besides being an employee! You’re better than that it seems
Posted on 4/1/19 at 5:07 am to THRILLHO
quote:
Familiar with it, but not sure about the legality. Honestly, the laws are a bit beyond me, so I may not be fully accurate in the OP. But I feel that most of my point stands
The Wunderlich is an IQ test but there is no particular score required to get drafted. So it really would not run afoul of any such law.
BTW, I think such a law is idiotic. If an employer wants to hire based on IQ he should be allowed.
Posted on 4/1/19 at 6:02 am to Ebbandflow
quote:
Some of the terms are more geared towards people with a certain socioeconomic background and education
The basis of IQ tests are logic, not vocabulary. Yes, there is some vocabulary, but you don't need words to determine which number or pattern comes next in the series. If you're smart, you don't need to know the exact definition of a word to determine the context of a sentence.
There are 116,000 libraries in this country, and they don't only let in people of certain backgrounds.
This is just more bigotry of low expectations. It is purely the culture and the lack of desire to educate oneself that keeps these people from knowing "white people words."
I've learned more advanced vocabulary from independent study than I've learned in an institution. I've even learned a lot of words from music, but I don't listen to rap. It's simply the culture these people choose to participate in that keeps them from knowing certain terms.
Posted on 4/1/19 at 6:12 am to stuntman
quote:
I've wondered this exact same thing about taking the BAR exam
You used to not have to. The rise of the law school changed that.
Posted on 4/1/19 at 6:15 am to THRILLHO
My input - 1) In interviews ask questions that you would expect the new hire to know. 2) Hire contract or hire on probation and after 6 months if they are good and don't have issues hire them or send them packing.
Posted on 4/1/19 at 7:27 am to THRILLHO
I absolutely took an IQ test before being hired for one job. A psychologist interview, IQ test and a full physical. They claimed it was just for "placement" within the company after hiring, but being that it was done before I was hired, and what I learned after being on the "inside" it was absolutely used to determine if they would hire you or not.
1. Do we like her / him?
2. Do we think they would be a good fit?
3. How did they do in "pre employment screening"?
Then they make a decision.
1. Do we like her / him?
2. Do we think they would be a good fit?
3. How did they do in "pre employment screening"?
Then they make a decision.
Posted on 4/1/19 at 7:54 am to THRILLHO
Because 99.923% of all human beings 18-22 are virtually unemployable.
They have already proven that the human brain does not full develop until age 25.
There are rare exceptions but it sort of like MIT or Caltech taking 14 year old geniuses. A handful make it but most are maladjusted human beings who end up committing suicide.
They have already proven that the human brain does not full develop until age 25.
There are rare exceptions but it sort of like MIT or Caltech taking 14 year old geniuses. A handful make it but most are maladjusted human beings who end up committing suicide.
Posted on 4/1/19 at 9:35 am to THRILLHO
You're asking a question that is flawed. The issue is more complicated that "IQ tests are illegal." Instead, an employer who relies on any sort of pre-employment test is at risk of a lawsuit if the test has a disparate impact on a given group of people while testing for something that is not a "bona fide occupational qualification related to business necessity." (I may have the lingo off but that's the gist of it.). Example: I give an English language literacy test in connection with hiring ditch-diggers. In doing so, I get plenty of white and black ditch-diggers but fewer Latinos because more of them tend to have Spanish as their first language. As my English test is probably not a BFOQ for digging a ditch, I get dinged in a discrimination suit brought by Latinos.
*Disclaimer - this is from memory on a topic I have not looked at recently, but this is close.
*Disclaimer - this is from memory on a topic I have not looked at recently, but this is close.
This post was edited on 4/1/19 at 5:48 pm
Posted on 4/1/19 at 9:38 am to THRILLHO
quote:
-why don't companies make offers to competent high-schoolers? If it's because of barriers to entry that forces people to go to college, then shouldn't that be fixed? Why not eliminate the schooling requirements and make certifications more difficult
Why hire an 18 year old when you can hire a 22 year old with a better foundation?
Posted on 4/1/19 at 9:53 am to Ebbandflow
quote:
The IQ test is antiquated in the sense did it does not test raw ability accurately. Some of the terms are more geared towards people with a certain socioeconomic background and education
Absolute horse shite....
These same people would do poorly on the test no matter how it was worded....
Idiots like you who spend their lives framing whitey as the boogeyman is more to blame than anything....
You Leftys' enjoy keeping minorities as "pets", don't you?
Posted on 4/1/19 at 9:55 am to THRILLHO
Or you don’t pay them and college weeds out 25% of them.
Posted on 4/1/19 at 10:03 am to THRILLHO
I think not all engineering fields are not all created equally- I say that as a licensed PE in structural engineering.
I started off doing fire protection stuff, but soon found work thereafter as a structural guy.
While the demand for fire protection is much much higher than structural, structural is way harder in terms of what you need to keep track of.
Plumbing and fire protection engineering could honestly be a 2 year program, and I imagine the same for the electrical side of MEP work. Power distribution and deeper electronics however is a different beast.
I started off doing fire protection stuff, but soon found work thereafter as a structural guy.
While the demand for fire protection is much much higher than structural, structural is way harder in terms of what you need to keep track of.
Plumbing and fire protection engineering could honestly be a 2 year program, and I imagine the same for the electrical side of MEP work. Power distribution and deeper electronics however is a different beast.
Posted on 4/1/19 at 11:38 am to oogabooga68
quote:
Absolute horse shite....
These same people would do poorly on the test no matter how it was worded....
Idiots like you who spend their lives framing whitey as the boogeyman is more to blame than anything....
You Leftys' enjoy keeping minorities as "pets", don't you?
I said socioeconomic background, not race. Try to keep up.
Posted on 4/1/19 at 11:59 am to THRILLHO
quote:
NFL has wunderlick Familiar with it, but not sure about the legality. Honestly, the laws are a bit beyond me, so I may not be fully accurate in the OP. But I feel that most of my point stands.
Wunderlick is more of a 'knowledge' test than an 'intelligence' test. IQ is given to small children who don't have that much knowledge but it assesses their ability to process information.
Wunderlick is really designed to just weed out 'unteachable' athletes. One expert explained it this way. 'If you flunk the Wunderlick test it means you missed questions like 'How many days are there in a week?'
Posted on 4/1/19 at 12:47 pm to THRILLHO
I did exceptionally well when i took my IQ test as a 6 year old. Why wasn't i getting offers of employment then. Imagine if they hired me at 6 and paid me 10 grand a year and I invested all of it because i didn't have expenses. I'd be able to retire at 40.
Posted on 4/1/19 at 1:43 pm to THRILLHO
quote:
I really don't think that it significantly changes the point of the OP:
-why don't companies make offers to competent high-schoolers? If it's because of barriers to entry that forces people to go to college, then shouldn't that be fixed? Why not eliminate the schooling requirements and make certifications more difficult
I wouldn't call thermodynamics, mass transfer, advanced circuits, or mechanics of materials "barriers to entry".
Also, certifications are a money grab plain and simple. I'm an engineer certified in nothing, and although a high school graduate could come in and do the administrative part of my job, they would probably never teach themselves the subjects to obtain the technical insight that is also required.
I don't want this to sound like snooty post, but if you like engineering, and an untrained high-schooler could do your current job, then you probably won't be very satisfied with your career.
Posted on 4/1/19 at 4:41 pm to TenWheelsForJesus
quote:
The basis of IQ tests are logic, not vocabulary.
quote:
Yes, there is some vocabulary, but you don't need words to determine which number or pattern comes next in the series. If you're smart, you don't need to know the exact definition of a word to determine the context of a sentence.
Does not compute.
quote:
There are 116,000 libraries in this country, and they don't only let in people of certain backgrounds.
I grew up in a middle-class family where they used to take us to the library all the time when we were kids. Many people don't have that family dynamic or parents who care that much in the first place. Simply telling them years later, when they are adults, that all they needed was a library seems like a lazy way of not giving a shite and dismissing circumstance.
It's a shame they never taught you critical thinking at that Library. Otherwise you would taking all factors with a nuanced approach.
quote:
This is just more bigotry of low expectations
That's interesting coming from a guy who believes they aren't as capable. Maybe you should have learned a little self-awareness as well.
quote:
I've learned more advanced vocabulary from independent study than I've learned in an institution
Yeah life pretty much works that way for most people. Schools give you a basis for approach, as do parents. Of course, when you have a bunch of people in society, like yourself, telling certain kids they just aren't as apt then you get a poor result. Encouragement is very important for a child.
quote:
It's simply the culture these people choose to participate in that keeps them from knowing certain terms.
When you're an impressionable child, not everything seems like a choice.
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