re: I don't grasp how families make it.

We have only 1 kid, but our household budget is way below 4,000 per month, and I'm not really frugal at all IMO. We don't have car payments, so that helps a lot.

One big difference that I have noticed about my spending habits, compared to my friends and relatives: I will spend money on a firearm, or a guitar at the drop of a hat and not even think about it, but, I rarely spend money on small items that I see my friends buying all of the time. Stuff like a new phone charger, a little flashlight all kinds gadgets that they happen to notice at the convenience store or whatever. I don't even notice that stuff.

This morning, my cousin and I went in Mapco to get coffee. He started looking at stuff they had for sale, and before we got back to the truck, he had spent 20 bucks or more. New cap and some kind of USB wire that he thought he needed for something + our coffee. I was going to buy the coffee, but it seemed like he had plenty of money to throw away, so I let him pay for it.

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And I'm talking about how things are after Obamacare, after the Obama admin's endzone dance, after the media gave him oral for months on national TV.

You mean to tell me after all that, not only is it still broke but its also still the GOP's fault?

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The GOP is still largely to blame for the past and present, absolutely. What kind of logical fallacy is this? Just because Obama was a disaster that undoes everything Republicans have done? No.

But your kind of sheltered and delusional thinking is what will bring us socialized medicine. The incapability of admitting that Republicans have defended a corporatist system by labeling it as capitalist is going to frick everything up. It seems you've fallen for the lies. What's worse is that they don't have the fortitude to undo the corporatist abomination if it hurts someone's bottom line, and this will most assuredly bring us socialized medicine. So yes. The GOP is to blame. Get over it.

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We have only 1 kid, but our household budget is way below 4,000 per month, and I'm not really frugal at all IMO. We don't have car payments, so that helps a lot.

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You can find a way to make it work man. My wife and I didn't make a lot of money when we first got married and we had 2 kids. We are both 20 years into our careers now and don't really have near the financial constraints that we once did.

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Federal tax rates aside I guarantee it's nowhere close to that.

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Considering you had no idea they effectively paid zero federal income tax, I wouldn't put much weight into your guarantee.

They're pulling in north of 6k, no idea where you got $4,600 or $4,700.

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Considering you had no idea they effectively paid zero federal income tax, I wouldn't put much weight into your guarantee.

They're pulling in north of 6k, no idea where you got $4,600 or $4,700.

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OK buddy, you are correct. I actually have had a household income around 70k and been married with 2 kids once upon a time. I'm sure old baw's check is $1538 every two weeks and his net is $1500 because his federal and state taxes are all of his deductions

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I actually have had a household income around 70k and been married with 2 kids once upon a time.

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Was once upon a time in 2019? After Trump doubled the standard deductions and shifted the tax rates around?

Because that's when this thread, and the discussion about a family having a hard time making it on 80k with 3 kids, is taking place.

What I mean is, we don't need to spend that much.
Money really isn't a problem for us these days, we do OK.
What I was trying to point out was about the difference in spending habits.
My cousin and his wife are constantly having money problems, while our incomes are pretty comparable I think.
People don't seem to realize how much those small things cost.

Good for you man. Living well within your means is always the way to go. My wife and I are fortunate enough to make a pretty good living but we still live on a budget and could rein our spending way in if it ever became necessary.

Maybe the true patriots are those who ensure that they themselves are economically stable and then decide not to reproduce, in a heroic effort to speed up the collapse of this failing social experiment we are currently living in.

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Maybe the true patriots are those who ensure that they themselves are economically stable and then decide not to reproduce, in a heroic effort to speed up the collapse of this failing social experiment we are currently living in.

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I don't know about patriots. This could all be reversed if we would just stop subsidizing breeding but we won't because we are scared to be called names.