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re: I am changing my opinion on Trumps tariffs
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:10 pm to FreddieMac
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:10 pm to FreddieMac
quote:Silly. America (and most of the world) was limited to its own domestic production by lack of transportation and communication. If we still rode horses, and communicated by mail transported in boats you’d have a point.
This idea that we have price ourselves out of anything is simply based on a economic philosophy that started in the 1990s. For nearly 200 years from its founding to the 1990s, an America first concept of economics was the dominate train of thought.
When can order a computer component from China and have it under 36 hours later there is no moat protecting domestic production. And no amount of “America first” is going to convince consumers to pay 5x as much for an equivalent product they can import damn near instantly.
0
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:12 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Economic growth during Trumps tariffs was sluggish.
Again, the data does not support this conclusion. GDP grows was much higher under Trump than Obama.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:12 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Yep, it would destroy American exporting which built the middle class.
It's already damaged it, which is why the net jobs loss exists.
American companies have lost international market share in the affected industries because other international competitors can beat them on price due to the retaliatory tariffs, and literally had to lay off Americans as a result.
You and I do not agree about everything, but we agree on this.
You are 100% correct that populism leads to socialism and this thread illustrates exactly why.
I keep posting that today's "conservatives" are roughly as "conservative" as Jimmy Carter-era southern Democrats, and you can see it right here in this thread. They talk just like I remember those people talking, say the same things they used to say, hold the same positions on these types of issues (and others).
Marxism is the OG of populism. The "Elite" vs the "Little Guy."
Now "conservatives" are waving the banner for it.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:15 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
The data does not support the conclusion.
Didn't you JUST tell me that anybody could make data say anything they wanted?
So why is your data valid, but not the Tax Foundation data?
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:16 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
Tariffs only hurt Americans when the only/ product they can consume is from outside the country.
But even then, it provides fertile ground in the USA for companies to be formed that address that imbalance.
I think that in our founding, most all production of goods were done overseas, and the federal government got most of its revenue from tariffs = this prompted entrepreneurs in the USA to develop those products and reap the profits for themselves, with provided an source for getting revenue from the USA population via sales taxes and income taxes. I think this application of tariffs was an important factor in the USA accelerating its status to world power status.
/\ very rough analysis from a non-expert = me /\
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:16 pm to YouKnowImRight
quote:Its also helped hid a lot of inflation. If clothes were manufactured domestically t like they were 10” years ago, a tee-shirt would cost several hundred bucks.
Free trade and global markets are why middle class Americans can afford to live like the wealthy in most countries.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:19 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
GDP grows was much higher under Trump than Obama.
Wrong. Both ran below 3% For their term, Trump and Biden both sit around the 2.3% mark, not much different than Obama.
quote:
Trump took office in 2017, he promised a targeted economic growth rate of 3% each year. The administration failed to meet that target three years in a row,
Trumps overall economy was roughly similar to Obamas.
This post was edited on 9/10/24 at 2:27 pm
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:38 pm to Hateradedrink
did people actually listen to Trump's speech about the Tariffs. he specifically mentions putting tariffs on countries that don't use the dollar to trade with other countries. meaning Trump understands more countries around the world are opting out of buying US debt to buy energy and goods.
he is right, the only thing propping up the US economy is the dollar. I mean he is too late to mention the global reserve currency, countries around the world don't want their assets held hostage by a bunch of unelected bureaucrats in the federal reserve.
he is right, the only thing propping up the US economy is the dollar. I mean he is too late to mention the global reserve currency, countries around the world don't want their assets held hostage by a bunch of unelected bureaucrats in the federal reserve.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:40 pm to Hateradedrink
Patiently waiting IBChinaman /REEmans return to tell us how Chinese tarrifs are turrible turrible and how we are all dumb and just don't get it.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:52 pm to Gusoline
quote:
and how we are all dumb
Not necessarily.
Tariffs have been a huge Democrat/union thing for a long time. Its hard to change peoples minds when something has been pushed so hard for so long.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:52 pm to Tmcgin
"As someone who shops at Walmart for cheap shite"
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:54 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
The US does not need the rest of the world economically, they need us.
We don’t need them, but we would be poorer without them. If you don’t believe me the case is laid out in painful detail in The Wealth of Nations, published in 1776.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:56 pm to Penrod
quote:
We don’t need them, but we would be poorer without them.
Evidently MAGA believes trade should be socialized.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:57 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Tariffs are literally the rewarding of woke corporations at the expense of the working man.
That’s incoherent.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:58 pm to Hateradedrink
Tariif the shite of the potential enemies and all WEF supporters!
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:58 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
Again, the data does not support this conclusion. GDP grows was much higher under Trump than Obama.
Roger lives off Government stimmies
He has no idea about anything with the economy
Posted on 9/10/24 at 3:23 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
So why is your data valid, but not the Tax Foundation data?
Because the fundamental question you ask about the data you present makes all the difference. That is normally how this stuff works. I see this all the time. People present data and conclusion without asking what research question was asked to get these results.
The question asked for the Pew data is simple. Over the past 50 year where do the middle class stand in relation to the richest Americans when it comes to who holds the most wealth?
Second graph, what effect does education have on one's ability to gather wealth?
So, as I said, data can be made to say most anything, that is why the question asked is important. I have clearly stated my position. That globalism that started in the 1970s and accelerated in the 1990s has hurt the middle class in America. All those globalist economic theories may be good on a MACRO level, but it horrible for the poorest and least educated of our citizens. As a matter of fact, the economic data shows that the more we globalize, the hard it becomes on our least educated, poorest citizen.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 3:24 pm to wackatimesthree
BS.
Your economics stink.
Your economics stink.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 3:25 pm to GumboPot
quote:
There is a role for tariffs. They just have to be applied just right.
Whatever happened to I.B. Freeman?
Posted on 9/10/24 at 3:29 pm to Tmcgin
quote:
As a purveyor of imported goods
You raise my tariff I raise my prices
Its a tax on the consumers...period
Countries don't pay them not a dime (yuan)
But Trump knows business.....
Stop buying that product. Do an American made one. Should be competitive now. And if it's not, then the tariff needs to go up till it is.
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