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re: I am changing my opinion on Trumps tariffs
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:36 pm to FreddieMac
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:36 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
The US has plenty of natural resources to be much more self sufficent.
Ae you going to nationalize those resources?
This is what I never understand about people who say that the US "could be self-sufficient."
Because to the extent that THIS is true:
quote:
The US does not need the rest of the world economically, they need us.
Anything we produce here will have a global market that will pay more for it than a producer could get for it domestically.
So unless you're going to enact a government take-over of a particular industry and nationalize it and force producers to only sell it domestically, how are you going to keep producers from selling it to other foreign markets?
Export tariffs as well as import tariffs?
Oh, what a tangled web we weave. Before you know it you'll be price fixing and give it long enough and you'll have a centrally planned economy like the Soviet Union. In case you're too young to remember, that didn't work out so well.
quote:
We should put America and Americans first, period.
Right now Trump's tariffs have Americans taking it in the shorts on prices for lots of goods, including a lot of food items. Again, that's not theory. The Tax Foundation has lots of hard data on it.
Why don't y'all just follow conservative principles that work instead of following a shiny populist bauble that has been proven to NOT work dozens of times because Huckster Carlson came up with a catchy slogan about it? Would it kill you?
This post was edited on 9/10/24 at 1:37 pm
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Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:36 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
The more you push this crap, the more they increase immigration. Its mind blowing that y'all cant see the connection between pushing low level labor and immigration.
The solution is not to give into what the others around the world want, I really do not care about them. I care about jobs and my children having a life that global elites are slowly sapping away from Americans.
This idea that we have price ourselves out of anything is simply based on a economic philosophy that started in the 1990s. For nearly 200 years from its founding to the 1990s, an America first concept of economics was the dominate train of thought.
You are suggesting that a shift in philosophy is not possible becuase others around the world will not allow it. I disagree, its not what they want its what is best for the American people.
BTW, illegals can be deported. Free trade and global markets are the enemy of the American middle class.
This post was edited on 9/10/24 at 1:38 pm
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:38 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
I care about jobs and my children having a life
Hard numbers.
The Trump-Biden tariffs have cost more American jobs than they have produced.
It's true.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:39 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Tariffs are literally the rewarding of woke corporations at the expense of the working man.
This doesn't ring true at all. Care to elaborate?
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:39 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
The US does not need the rest of the world economically, they need us.
The U.S. is by far the most self sufficient nation in the world regarding natural resources. But the economy can be totally ruined by an authoritarian govt that is clueless.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:40 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
The solution is not to give into what the others around the world want,
Cheap labor does exactly that.
We dont perform low level mfg because its not economical for us to do so. Tariffs are simply corporate welfare paid for by consumer.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:42 pm to Hateradedrink
Tariffs have always been a great idea
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:42 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
The Trump-Biden tariffs have cost more American jobs than they have produced.
No a global made up pandemic did that. That is the thing about stats, you can make them say whatever you want.
Tariffs are not a short-term solution. Again, you forget we have over about 200 years of evidence that America first economics works for Americans. You have about 30 years of globalist, techno economy and the American middle class has shrunk and has less buying power.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:50 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
No a global made up pandemic did that.
Tariffs did, prior to the pandemic
Which is why Trump pushed for tools to artificially inflate the economy in 2019 prior to election.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:50 pm to Hateradedrink
Tariffs raise the price of imported goods and limit demand for exported goods. They are bad for Americans on both sides. We want people buying our products so OUR economy grows. Can you imagine if the Big Three automakers could only sell in the US? They'd all be in front of Congress begging for bailouts by the weekend.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:52 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
Again, you forget we have over about 200 years of evidence that America first economics works for Americans.
Huh?
Our economy exploded in the Post WW2 global era when we were supplying the world with goods while they rebuilt their nations. Globalism MADE us the superpower we are.
And our military made globalism possible.
This post was edited on 9/10/24 at 1:53 pm
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:54 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:56 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
No a global made up pandemic did that.
Nope.
The data is the same before the pandemic. Remember, those tariffs have been in effect since 2017.
quote:
That is the thing about stats, you can make them say whatever you want.
If you think there's something wrong with the Tax Foundation analysis, do tell. If you're just sticking your fingers in your ears and closing your eyes to any evidence that doesn't conform to your bias because you don't want something to spoil the dogma, then there's nothing anybody can really say. Such is populism.
quote:
Again, you forget we have over about 200 years of evidence that America first economics works for Americans.
Can you stop with the empty slogans? I would submit that America has achieved what she has achieved for 200 years despite tariffs, not because of them. At least in the vast majority of cases.
But I'd be open to the specifics of your claim. Exactly what policies are you referring to and exactly how did they produce prosperity in the US?
quote:
Tariffs are not a short-term solution.
These have been in place for seven, going on eight years now.
When should we expect to see the ROI?
And what will it look like, and exactly how will these tariffs cause the benefits you expect?
Thanks in advance.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:59 pm to YouKnowImRight
quote:
Tariffs raise the price of imported goods and limit demand for exported goods. They are bad for Americans on both sides. We want people buying our products so OUR economy grows. Can you imagine if the Big Three automakers could only sell in the US? They'd all be in front of Congress begging for bailouts by the weekend.
And that goes both ways, too.
The statement that "the world needs America more than American needs the world," despite being at best only marginally true, also ignores that what the rest of the world largely needs the US for is to buy their stuff.
We have the largest economy in the world and people with the most disposable income.
Yes, we export a lot of things too, I'm not ignoring that. But we function as the world's buyer of goods probably even more so than we do a supplier.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:00 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Cheap labor does exactly that.
We dont perform low level mfg because its not economical for us to do so. Tariffs are simply corporate welfare paid for by consumer.
This train of thought is why we have so many poor people in poverty in area where we have taken away coal mining and similar jobs. Not everyone is equipped to be a member of the service economy or has the aptitude. The only thing this globalist mindset has done is gut the middle class of America.
I completely understand your position and thought process, it is mainstream economic theory from the likes of Robert Reich and other globalist. It does not work for the American middle class.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:02 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
This train of thought is why we have so many poor people in poverty in area where we have taken away coal mining and similar jobs
Welfare traps poor people.
People used to move to where the jobs moved, they no longer do that because the govt makes it possible to exist without working. Increased low level work just means more immigrants, not higher wages.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:02 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
Free trade and global markets are the enemy of the American middle class.
Free trade and global markets are why middle class Americans can afford to live like the wealthy in most countries.
We probably wouldn't have a middle class without an export market.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:06 pm to YouKnowImRight
quote:
Tariffs raise the price of imported goods and limit demand for exported goods. They are bad for Americans on both sides.
Yep, it would destroy American exporting which built the middle class.
Too many of these dudes have been propagandized by unions, and no longer believe in "free trade"
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:08 pm to YouKnowImRight
The data does not support the conclusion.
As we have moved more and more towards free trade the American middle class has contracted at an increasing pace. Wealth has been shifted significantly from a majority of Americans to an increasingly smaller portion of the population. The cause, globalism.
Furthermore, as we have moved those manufacturing jobs out of the US, the lowest educated of our population has suffered the most. The most affected people are those individuals without a college education.
I know the theory and have studied it. But there is a difference between theory and hard data telling us its not working for the majority of Americans.
As we have moved more and more towards free trade the American middle class has contracted at an increasing pace. Wealth has been shifted significantly from a majority of Americans to an increasingly smaller portion of the population. The cause, globalism.
Furthermore, as we have moved those manufacturing jobs out of the US, the lowest educated of our population has suffered the most. The most affected people are those individuals without a college education.
I know the theory and have studied it. But there is a difference between theory and hard data telling us its not working for the majority of Americans.
This post was edited on 9/10/24 at 2:11 pm
Posted on 9/10/24 at 2:10 pm to FreddieMac
Economic growth during Trumps tariffs was sluggish.
Its left wing economics, that former Republicans have bought into.
Its left wing economics, that former Republicans have bought into.
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