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Posted on 9/25/19 at 10:32 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
But regardless, Trump did not hire him to be an employee of the federal government, so it’s questionable to have give him roles that are for federal employees, especially given the nature of this specific role (working with a foreign nation to investigate US citizens) and the potential conflict with his official role.
What treaty was he negotiating? For all we know he was there on vacation and happened to talk to the Ukraine Govt about some issues that concerned several interested parties. Again, I stress, RG is not making nor negotiating official US Policy!
Have you ever been to Ukraine in the Summer? The wheat fields are glorious. I will always recall that weekend in Sevastopal with Tatania just prior to O letting the Russians invade. Nude diving for oysters, Rock Lobster and Quiche. Good Times. But I digress. I can go anywhere I desire, if they will have me. And I can talk to whomever I want to talk to, if they want to talk to me. I am not negotiating an arms deal or any other foreign policy. I am a Free Man and I will die a Free Man.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 10:33 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
would question it if a D was in office and did the same thing.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 10:37 pm to buckeye_vol
Think of it as McCain's guy flying to London to get the Steele Dossier. Except this time the corruption and collusion appears to be true.
As I mentioned earlier, the Ukrainians had been trying to get the info to us since the O Admin. But they were cock blocked by the former ambassador and the FBI stationed in Ukraine.
Think of it as McCain's guy flying to London to get the Steele Dossier. Except this time the corruption and collusion appears to be true.
quote:
I mean if one of the potential legal issues for Trump is that this arrangement was for his own personal gain, then using his personal attorney does not refute that, whereas just using Barr would.
As I mentioned earlier, the Ukrainians had been trying to get the info to us since the O Admin. But they were cock blocked by the former ambassador and the FBI stationed in Ukraine.
Think of it as McCain's guy flying to London to get the Steele Dossier. Except this time the corruption and collusion appears to be true.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 10:45 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:Well I doubt it’s violation of that then, especially since it’s only been used twice.
Admittedly, I only looked at the Logan act and very briefly, but it was pretty vague and only said you needed “permission from the United State, directly or indirectly”. I’m sure that includes permission from the President.
Regardless, I just think it’s a bad idea. It was already going to raise red flags when asking a nation to look into a major political opponent who may be have the best chance of beating Trump in an election that is quickly approaching. So people are already going to question the motives behind it and whether it’s for personal gain.
That being said, the best way to refute that is by making it about something that is the interest of the government itself and its laws and using official government procedures and government employees in their official capacity to assist as needed. Using his personal attorney, who does not represent the interests of the government in any offices capacity, and whose ethical duty it to serve the interests of his personal client first and foremost, does not really make it look like he’s not trying to gain something personally.
Again it may not be illegal, but it sure is not something that’s going to be ignored with impeachment on the table.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 10:45 pm to Rebel
quote:
Rudy
Toast.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 10:48 pm to Rebel
Yes, and as his personal attorney he has the right and an interest in looking into crimes committed against his client.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 10:59 pm to Rebel
quote:
Message
How is Rudy Giuliani dealing with foreign governments?
He’s told everyone why last night but Laura Ingram did her best Hannity impersonation and wouldn’t STFU.
From Rudy’s mouth last night, and I quote:
Rudy is president Trump’s personal attorney and he has a right as well as the professional duty to defend him. That also means he has a right to investigate the origins of the Russia probe that have caused his client, president Trump tremendous harm. Ukraine was involved in helping create some of the false narratives we’ve heard for 3 years about Trump, and as such Rudy has every right to investigate Ukraine and the involvement of their govt as their role that ultimately led to the Russia probe. He doesn’t need to work for the federal govt to do this. However, it does appear that whatever his investigation uncovers is shared with AG’s similar investigation of the origins of this scandal. To me, this looks as if president Trump and Rudy are quietly building a civil case while Barr is conducting a parallel criminal investigation
Posted on 9/25/19 at 11:04 pm to Speckhunter2012
quote:I just find it hard to believe that in 2019 the government of a foreign ally who frequently communicates with us (as evidenced today) could not get some super important information to an administration who would want it.
As I mentioned earlier, the Ukrainians had been trying to get the info to us since the O Admin. But they were cock blocked by the former ambassador and the FBI stationed in Ukraine.
Yet, they somehow were able to communicate this with a journalist in the United States. And they just so happened to connect with the one journalist who is widely-known to publish political dirt no other journalist or outlet is willing to publish because it lacks any independent and/or objectively verified. And that journalist is so poorly regarded that the outlet he worked for required every article to be labeled an opinion piece.
I know people aren’t going to question Solomon since every article just happens to be some inside scoop bombshell that just happens to confirm the views of most of the people post and reads almost like many posts. But it would be nice that as a group who hates the media and trusts nothing they write when it doesn’t support their views, no matter how many outlets and journalists verify it, that some people in that group would at least apply a fraction of that skepticism and distrust when bombshell claims support their own views.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 11:10 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
I just find it hard to believe that in 2019 the government of a foreign ally who frequently communicates with us (as evidenced today) could not get some super important information to an administration who would want it
There is protocol involved. That protocol involved going through the Ambassador to Ukraine who repeatedly blocked Ukrainian attempts to deliver information to the administration. It’s been talked about ad nauseam for days now.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 11:19 pm to Blizzard of Chizz
quote:He has every right to investigate things for his personal client like any other personal attorney for any other client; however, personal attorney’s don’t just have a “right” to any information from a foreign nation unless there is an official order or request approved for that information. As a private citizen representing Trump’s personal issues, he shouldn’t have any more or less access than anyone else without going through the official procedures. So it becomes a lot less clear that he has a “right” to that information using the official authority of the government for work that is a personal matter.
Rudy has every right to investigate Ukraine and the involvement of their govt as their role that ultimately led to the Russia probe.
Not to mention, one of the major things he’s investigating is the Biden’s as the memo showed, and that is completely unrelated to the things you mentioned that he had a right to investigate (e.g., Russian probe).
Posted on 9/25/19 at 11:21 pm to DallasTiger11
quote:He also said as the attorney representing a client, any client at that, he has a Right and a Duty to examine evidence, interview witnesses, conduct research, and investigate. He is merely doing EXACTLY what is Proper and Necessary as a client attorney. This includes bringing evidence of criminality to the proper authority, like say, the Ukranian Govt. or the US DOJ.
He answered this last night during his meltdown. Basically said he and Trump can’t trust DOJ/FBI so had to do it themselves.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 11:29 pm to Blizzard of Chizz
quote:And where in the protocol is going to a journalist instead? Regardless, protocol seems like a excuse, that conveniently ignores that they’re arguing the ambassadors
There is protocol involved. That protocol involved going through the Ambassador to Ukraine who repeatedly blocked Ukrainian attempts to deliver information to the administration. It’s been talked about ad nauseam for days now
was abusing/ignoring protocol, which would justify pursing avenues outside the typical protocol.
But the most plausible explanation is that much is not all of that story is incorrect if not outright lies, which is why they chose a source who they knew would publish it with little to no verification, even though he’s so poorly regarded that only a segment (e.g., Hannity viewers, Gateway Pundit readers) will read and/or believe it.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 11:30 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
however, personal attorney’s don’t just have a “right” to any information from a foreign nation unless there is an official order or request approved for that information.
Says who? There is plenty of evidence that the old Ukrainian govt was part of the genesis of what ultimately led to the Russia probe. He has every right to investigate their role. Who else was gonna do it? Bob Muller wasted 2 years and blew 30 million dollars of tax payer dollars and couldn’t be fricking bothered to look at it even when all roads led back to the Ukraine. Rudy works for president Trump and he has every right to question those involved, wherever they might be.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 11:34 pm to Sidicous
quote:He has a duty and right to try to do all of those things, but he doesn’t just have a right to any of it unless either the government allows or orders it, and/or someone agrees to it.
he has a Right and a Duty to examine evidence, interview witnesses, conduct research, and investigate
His duty and rights as a personal attorney are no different than if he was our own personal attorney. Of course, because of who his client is, I’m sure people would be less likely to ignore him, but that doesn’t mean he suddenly has some new rights.
Posted on 9/25/19 at 11:45 pm to Blizzard of Chizz
quote:He has every right to investigate whatever he wants, but he doesn’t just have a right to any information because he wants it. They’re free to give it to him if they want, and he’s free to use the normal procedures that any attorney can use to request it.
Says who? There is plenty of evidence that the old Ukrainian govt was part of the genesis of what ultimately led to the Russia probe. He has every right to investigate their role.
quote:Well that’s irrelevant to this, whether he should or when could have in the first place.
Bob Muller wasted 2 years and blew 30 million dollars of tax payer dollars and couldn’t be fricking bothered to look at it even when all roads led back to the Ukraine.
quote:And he would have the same right to question if he was representing your or me. Those people also have a right to tell him that they’re not going to answer a single question unless he gets a court or government order.
Rudy works for president Trump and he has every right to question those involved, wherever they might be.
So all I’m saying is that Rudy is free to do his work for his client, wherever that may lead him. But he just didn’t have any unique rights or powers than any other attorney has, and it SEEMS (maybe you’re not) like you’re arguing that he has rights and powers reserved for a government prosecutor.
Posted on 9/26/19 at 12:03 am to buckeye_vol
What point are you trying to make? The op asked why Rudy is dealing with a foreign govt. Its been answered that he is Trump’s attorney and he has a right to defend him as well as investigate the origins of the allegations and the role Ukraine played. What point are you trying to make by saying he has a right to ask for information but that doesn’t mean he gets it unless that foreign govt chooses to give it to him? You could literally apply that logic to a murder investigation as well. The cops can ask a suspect for information but that doesn’t mean they are entitled to it. They can’t beat it out of him. A suspect can provide as little or as much information as they like to investigators... Asking questions is what attorneys do when they are investigating something related to their client.
Edit: and there is no implication implied or otherwise that Rudy has special govt powers.. the op asked why he was dealing with Ukraine.. the narrative has been that Rudy has no business dealing with Ukraine, but that’s false.
Edit: and there is no implication implied or otherwise that Rudy has special govt powers.. the op asked why he was dealing with Ukraine.. the narrative has been that Rudy has no business dealing with Ukraine, but that’s false.
This post was edited on 9/26/19 at 12:09 am
Posted on 9/26/19 at 12:29 am to Blizzard of Chizz
quote:I think he meant, based on his subsequent posts, dealing with the foreign government as Trump’s personal attorney, when the memo has Trump discussing his involvement with government business.
What point are you trying to make? The op asked why Rudy is dealing with a foreign govt.
quote:I don’t know. It was not very clear, and I think it would be worse if Trump is request favors of a foreign government as the President and sending him to dig up dirt on Biden for personal reasons.
and there is no implication implied or otherwise that Rudy has special govt powers
It’s likely none of it is illegal either way, but it just seems like he would want to separate his personal issues as much as possible.
Posted on 9/26/19 at 12:33 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
But Rudy doesn’t work for the executive branch, and working for the President in a personal capacity does not make someone an employee of the client’s workplace.
And it’s not completely correct that the president can just hire anyone he wants since many positions require Senate confirmation. But regardless, Trump did not hire him to be an employee of the federal government, so it’s questionable to have give him roles that are for federal employees, especially given the nature of this specific role (working with a foreign nation to investigate US citizens) and the potential conflict with his official role.
I agree with this. I have no doubt it's legal, mostly because it's out there and nobody has really questioned it, but Trump needs to use proper executive channels. And if he can't trust them, fire someone and hire someone he can.
Having a personal attorney that conducts official gov business just seems like a way to loophole transparency. And I'm aware every president does it.
Posted on 9/26/19 at 12:42 am to buckeye_vol
quote:He also said that 3 Ukrainians, at least 1 of them a Ukrainian Govt. Official, came to him in NYC seeking to give evidence/testimony unsolicited.
unless either the government allows or orders it, and/or someone agrees to it.
Earlier the 1999 Treaty with Ukraine signed by Billy BJ Clinton and ratified by a Dem Congress for MUTUAL Assistance in Legal Matters was posted. https://dcwhispers.com/doh-did-you-know-theres-a-treaty-between-the-usa-ukraine-regarding-cooperation-for-prosecuting-crimes/
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