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Started By
Message
re: How Free Trade Took Down the American Middle Class
Posted on 3/23/25 at 5:55 pm to RiverCityTider
Posted on 3/23/25 at 5:55 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
Well this is just false. Men with high school degrees absolutely did did accomplish all that...and our neighborhood was filled with stay at home mom's and new cars.
Just because it didn't work for his family, obviously it didn't work for anyone.
Faultless logic.
Posted on 3/23/25 at 5:55 pm to scottydoesntknow
quote:
There is a huge demand for skilled labor in this country.
Like what, exactly?
We're looking at shortages of plumbers, electricians, machinists, welders, auto mechanics, marine technicians, auto body repair techs, etc. It's a product of society telling men that they're worthless without a degree. So, they go get some worthless Sociology degree, take on debt, and still don't know how to do anything.
Posted on 3/23/25 at 6:25 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:I guess that's ok if one wants to work in a plant doing the same thing a thousand times a day. My dad was one of 8. Four boys and four girls. Everyone one of them had a college degree because my grandparents put value on it although they grew up farming, rural mail carrying, etc., to allow his kids to have it better than they. That's the way it has always been, until now. My generation did OK. I guess I could have stopped at high school as many of my contemparies did. My wife and I seemingly were always in school and working full time and raising children. We did OK. It can still be done if one has the drive and the work ethic. I had a little help with early college but the rest was on me and zero student debt when I went as far as I needed as well as my wife (she has a terminal degree). Things suck today. I get by. But continually whining whoa is me is not going to change a damn thing. Mistakes have been made for years and continue to be made. Waste and fraud over the history of our country puts us in the situation we are in. Political decisions have always been made on what's best for the politician; not the American people. Buck it up and vote the scoundrels out and demand more. Bitching on a message board won't make any difference.
Dad didn’t need a college degree—just a high school diploma got him a solid job at the steel mill or car plant, makin what’s like $62,000 today.
Posted on 3/23/25 at 6:38 pm to scottydoesntknow
quote:
Like what, exactly?
LINK
quote:
To understand the scope of the problem and identify potential countermeasures, we looked at several critical skilled roles, including welders, construction laborers, electricians, and other skill categories that are vulnerable to increased churn (see sidebar, “Our methodology”). For these roles, we found that from 2022 to 2032, annual hiring is expected to be more than 20 times the projected annual increase in net new jobs (Exhibit 1). This extraordinary rate of churn could cost companies more than $5.3 billion every year in talent acquisition and training costs alone.2 The additional lost productivity as new talent is brought up to speed could amount to significantly more.
quote:
The aging of the United States is becoming increasingly evident: between 1984 and 2027, the ratio of post-working-age individuals to working-age individuals is projected to rise by about 75 percent, from 2:10 to 3.5:10.3 In some sectors, the impact is already acute.4 Since the pandemic, labor force participation rates for people 55 and older have declined by about 2 percent, while for 16- to 24-year-olds, both participation rates and employment population ratios remain below pre-COVID-19 levels.5
Moreover, Gen Z workers report persistent cultural barriers to vocational training. Despite a recent 3 percent rebound in vocational enrollment (up from 2018 levels),6 a survey of 1,000 US-based 18- to 20-year-olds found that 74 percent perceive a stigma associated with choosing vocational school over a traditional four-year university. An overwhelming 79 percent of respondents said their parents wanted them to pursue a college education after high school, while only 5 percent said the same about vocational school.7
quote:
Even as worker numbers fall, demand in US industry is projected to remain high due to infrastructure needs, a surge in real estate redevelopment, and the energy transition. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law’s (BIL’s) spending levels and subsequent workforce needs are slated to peak around 2027–28, when new BIL construction expenditure could expand job market supply by 345,000 jobs, spanning sectors across the value chain. Construction and manufacturing, specifically, may experience strong competition for entry-level skilled-trades talent.
Simultaneously, the repurposing of commercial real estate in response to hybrid work could also increase demand for construction trade workers. In a moderate scenario, we found that in the median city we studied, demand for office space in 2030 could be 13 percent lower than it was in 2019. That figure would translate into a reduction in value of 26 percent in our moderate scenario and up to 42 percent in our severe scenario.
Posted on 3/23/25 at 6:40 pm to dnm3305
quote:
Someone that has the initiative to put in 40-60 hours a week, work overtime, and build something with his hands should absolutely be able to support his family on a middle class way of life.
No. That's communist talk. Literally. You're describing the to each according to his needs portion of the idiom of Marx.
quote:
What the frick kind of world view do you have? Seriously.
A belief in freedom and being anti-Communist.
quote:
The pretentiousness it takes to even utter that bullshite you just said is astounding and you are completely unaware.
These emotional objections were never raised when this same discussion was had prior to MAGA in reference to black people underperforming economically.
Posted on 3/23/25 at 6:41 pm to TigersHuskers
quote:
Of course he doesn't. He's a country club RINO type.
He's also the same guy who went on anti depressants because of Trump and was willing to blow Marco Rubio so Trump wouldn't be the nominee in 2016
HHTM will never redeem herself for what she did.
Posted on 3/23/25 at 6:42 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
It's funny how so few can see beyond what is exactly in front of them. Complete tunnel vision.
No I understand this economic model of the 50s-70s was an outlier due to the world rebuilding from WW2 and our investment in ensuring the USSR didn't win the Cold War.
It's an unrealistic, halcyon view that requires devolution in both our economy, standard of living, and general conditions around the globe. The world has changed and those who teach their kids to live in an outdated mindset are destroying their children's future.
Inputting better decision-making will output better outcomes (in the aggregate; there will always be bad luck here or there).
Posted on 3/23/25 at 6:43 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Did you seriously just quote a communist rag???
WOW!
The place you quoted also is hammering Trump on immigration and doge and a lot more.
Silva Mathema is their Director, Immigration Policy person. She was very vocal in her support of Harris in 2024. Stated she was tough on immigration.
About Us
Our mission
The Center for American Progress is an independent, nonpartisan policy institute that is dedicated to improving the lives of all Americans through bold, progressive ideas, as well as strong leadership and concerted action. Our aim is not just to change the conversation, but to change the country.
This is where you are getting your information from?????
WOW!
The place you quoted also is hammering Trump on immigration and doge and a lot more.
Silva Mathema is their Director, Immigration Policy person. She was very vocal in her support of Harris in 2024. Stated she was tough on immigration.
About Us
Our mission
The Center for American Progress is an independent, nonpartisan policy institute that is dedicated to improving the lives of all Americans through bold, progressive ideas, as well as strong leadership and concerted action. Our aim is not just to change the conversation, but to change the country.
This is where you are getting your information from?????
Posted on 3/23/25 at 6:44 pm to RiverCityTider
We traded a vibrant middle class for cheaper plastic crap from China.
Posted on 3/23/25 at 6:46 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Because I am not a Marxist
Yet you just quoted a marxist organization... OK! We totally believe you now.
Posted on 3/23/25 at 6:49 pm to StansberryRules
quote:
We traded a vibrant middle class
We still have one
Just not one with inefficient, overpaid lower level manufacturing jobs.
Posted on 3/23/25 at 6:50 pm to BCreed1
quote:
Yet you just quoted a marxist organization
Is that the X post or the community note?
Posted on 3/23/25 at 6:55 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
We still have one
Yep. You’re in it along with people you despise (welders, pipe fitters, plant baws).
Posted on 3/23/25 at 6:55 pm to dnm3305
quote:
Someone that has the initiative to put in 40-60 hours a week, work overtime, and build something with his hands should absolutely be able to support his family on a middle class way of life.
They dont have to. We are the land of opportunity, not the land of welfare.
Those factory workers who learned a little about computing in the 70s and 80s seemed to understand the way it works.
Posted on 3/23/25 at 6:56 pm to RiverCityTider
quote:
with a paycheck that buys a big house, two shiny cars in the driveway, and a summer trip to the beach.
LOL
This is such bullshite
Posted on 3/23/25 at 6:57 pm to SlowFlowPro
Well SlowFlowCuck ruined this thread.
Guy is a grade A loser.
Guy is a grade A loser.
Posted on 3/23/25 at 6:57 pm to texag7
quote:
Yep. You’re in it along with people you despise (welders, pipe fitters, plant baws).
I'd be pissed too if I worked at McDonald's like SFP or as a tour bus driver like RogerTheCucker
Posted on 3/23/25 at 6:59 pm to RiverCityTider
I have heard and even empathize with this narrative. The problem? There are so many things about it that are false. I will try later to provide some facts. In short, this is a massive oversimplication of a time that wasn’t so easy, though yea, some things were better, largely due to to the USA having very little competition in the first twenty years or so after the Second World War.
Posted on 3/23/25 at 7:03 pm to SlowFlowPro
And you post a marxist rag too.
How McKinsey Has Helped Raise the Stature of Authoritarian Governments
Don't quote to us from a frickin globalist website that promotes junk like this.
How McKinsey Has Helped Raise the Stature of Authoritarian Governments
quote:
One of McKinsey’s state-owned clients has even helped build China’s artificial islands in the South China Sea, a major point of military tension with the United States.
It turns out that McKinsey’s role in China is just one example of its extensive — and sometimes contentious — work around the world..
At a time when democracies and their basic values are increasingly under attack, the iconic American company has helped raise the stature of authoritarian and corrupt governments across the globe, sometimes in ways that counter American interests.
Inside Russia itself, McKinsey has worked with Kremlin-linked companies that have been placed under sanctions by Western governments — companies that the firm helped build up over the years and, in some cases, continues to advise.
Don't quote to us from a frickin globalist website that promotes junk like this.
This post was edited on 3/23/25 at 7:06 pm
Posted on 3/23/25 at 7:06 pm to TigersHuskers
“I've driven through places like Gary, IN and Youngstown, OH. I've seen what "free trade" brought to those people.”
Have you ever been out west or to AK and seen a ghost town, say after a mine played out? This has ALWAYS happened yet in recent times we have come to think that which was should always be. It never was that way! I support basic welfare bc it’s intolerable for a wealthy country to have people starving in the streets. A downside, though, is that Americans are less resilient. That is largely what we have seen.
Have you ever been out west or to AK and seen a ghost town, say after a mine played out? This has ALWAYS happened yet in recent times we have come to think that which was should always be. It never was that way! I support basic welfare bc it’s intolerable for a wealthy country to have people starving in the streets. A downside, though, is that Americans are less resilient. That is largely what we have seen.
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