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Message
How do you feel about Civil Asset Forfeiture and why is this not brought up to fix
Posted on 12/5/17 at 12:34 pm
Posted on 12/5/17 at 12:34 pm
Stole from an OT thread
LINK
My opinion is it’s theft plain and simple. Having CAF in place even if "reformed" creates the incentive for law enforcement to basically steal from otherwise law abiding citizens. It’s now become basically a crime to have cash since they can take it without cause, or intimidate you into signing a waiver so they can take it. Why is this allowed?
This seems like an issue both sides would agree on, why is it not brought up nationally?
LINK
quote:
Pittsley walked a drug-sniffing dog around Parhamovich's minivan. "At first," the Institute for Justice says, "the dog seemed to find nothing interesting about the vehicle. Then, the trooper gestured with what appeared to be a hidden tennis ball, and the dog responded." The cops used that "alert" as an excuse to search the minivan, and eventually they found $91,800 inside a speaker cabinet. The cops were so excited by their discovery that they high-fived each other. The windfall also apparently made them forget that there was no trace of the drugs that Pittsley's dog supposedly had detected.
quote:
Now the troopers were insinuating that there was something illegal about carrying that much cash. There isn't, but Parhamovich was so intimidated that he initially denied the money was his, saying the speakers and the cash belonged to a friend. Despite that denial, the troopers presented him with a waiver saying, "I...the owner of the property or currency described below, desire to give this property or currency, along with any and all interests and ownership that I may have in it, to the State of Wyoming, Division of Criminal Investigation, to be used for narcotics law enforcement purposes." Because he had the impression that he would not be free to go otherwise, Parhamovich signed the form without understanding the legal consequences.
My opinion is it’s theft plain and simple. Having CAF in place even if "reformed" creates the incentive for law enforcement to basically steal from otherwise law abiding citizens. It’s now become basically a crime to have cash since they can take it without cause, or intimidate you into signing a waiver so they can take it. Why is this allowed?
This seems like an issue both sides would agree on, why is it not brought up nationally?
18
Posted on 12/5/17 at 12:35 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:
How do you feel about Civil Asset Forfeiture
I think it is fricking theft.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 12:36 pm to DavidTheGnome
The problem is that both Trump and Sessions have been demonstrated as being very pro-asset forfeiture. As Conservatives, the government taking anything that doesn't belong to them should be appalling, but sadly they don't see it that way.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 12:37 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:
The waiver Parhamovich signed is aimed at getting around Wyoming's civil forfeiture rules, which the state legislature had tightened just a year before. The 2016 reforms included a requirement that law enforcement agencies prove seized property is connected to a crime by "clear and convincing evidence," a tougher test than the "preponderance of the evidence" standard it replaced. The legislation also mandated a probable cause hearing within 30 days of a seizure, required that property owners receive 15 days' notice of forfeiture hearings, and allowed judges to award them damages and attorney's fees when they successfully challenge forfeitures. But because Parhamovich "voluntarily" signed away his property, the cops did not have to worry about any of that. I.J. notes that Virginia and Texas have banned such waivers, recognizing that a motorist's consent in a situation like this is given under duress.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 12:37 pm to DavidTheGnome
It is, but this administration doesn’t seem to care too much about it. Sessions loves him some drug war and the spoils of it, and Trump has so far shown no inclination to reign him in on that issue.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 12:37 pm to DavidTheGnome
Civil asset forfeiture is theft, and so is imminent domain.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 12:38 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:Because we have a partisan system and it's not high up enough in anyone's priority stack to defect.
This seems like an issue both sides would agree on, why is it not brought up nationally?
Posted on 12/5/17 at 12:38 pm to FT
But one is provided for in the Constitution, and one (arguably) is in direct contravention of the Constitution.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 12:40 pm to DavidTheGnome
It’s blatantly unconstitutional, especially as applied.
Have no problem with forfeiture upon conviction, but in many cases civil forfeiture is rife with abuse.
Have no problem with forfeiture upon conviction, but in many cases civil forfeiture is rife with abuse.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 12:41 pm to DavidTheGnome
As I said in the OT thread, this is akin to the Mafia extorting payments from small businessmen by threatening them and their families. And we wonder why people hate police. Protect and serve my arse.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 12:41 pm to DavidTheGnome
Its abuse of the US Constitution that benefits local, state and the federal levels of government which answers your question below. The MSM is no longer independent so its not their concern.
quote]This seems like an issue both sides would agree on, why is it not brought up nationally?[/quote]
quote]This seems like an issue both sides would agree on, why is it not brought up nationally?[/quote]
Posted on 12/5/17 at 12:41 pm to hyzersoze
quote:
Virginia and Texas have banned such waivers, recognizing that a motorist's consent in a situation like this is given under duress.
Well, my state got one thing right at least.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 12:48 pm to DavidTheGnome
The way you've presented it, if true, sounds like theft. If this is legal, it needs to be addressed, especially if no laws were broken.
I wonder if this is the full story?
I wonder if this is the full story?
Posted on 12/5/17 at 12:51 pm to DavidTheGnome
“Holy cow $110,000 in this speaker!”
“Son what in the hell you doing with $100,000 in cash?”
“Awfully suspicious driving around with $95000”
“Sign right here and that $94000 is not property of the state”
frick CAF but in all honesty if this cat signed over that much money without considering the document then he likely has way more elsewhere and it likely wasn’t procurred legally.
“Son what in the hell you doing with $100,000 in cash?”
“Awfully suspicious driving around with $95000”
“Sign right here and that $94000 is not property of the state”
frick CAF but in all honesty if this cat signed over that much money without considering the document then he likely has way more elsewhere and it likely wasn’t procurred legally.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 1:16 pm to Robin Masters
quote:
frick CAF but in all honesty if this cat signed over that much money without considering the document then he likely has way more elsewhere and it likely wasn’t procurred legally.
IMO, the conversation probably went something like this...
Officer:"Son, theres $100k in drug money in your car."
Driver :"No sir thats for a downpayment on a piece of property"
Officer :"Not anymore. We are seizing it and you will never get it again. We are also charging you with felony money laundering and drug trafficking charges. That is, if you dont sign here. If you sign this document you dont go to prison for a lonnnnnng time. Make the right decision son."
Posted on 12/5/17 at 1:19 pm to FT
quote:
Civil asset forfeiture is theft, and so is imminent domain.
Agreed
Posted on 12/5/17 at 1:21 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Officer :"Not anymore. We are seizing it and you will never get it again. We are also charging you with felony money laundering and drug trafficking charges. That is, if you dont sign here. If you sign this document you dont go to prison for a lonnnnnng time. Make the right decision son."
don't forget "I know the judge and he loves assigning huge bonds to drug tafficking charges"
Posted on 12/5/17 at 1:25 pm to DavidTheGnome
Civil Asset Forfieture is just a fancy word for highway robbery. It is blatant, wanton thuggery by the government against the citizenry. The government maintains it through aggressive lobbying by sheriffs and DA associations. They convince bible-belt voters that it's only used to prevent drug kingpins from using moneys gained through the illicit drug trade for their legal defense. The bible-thumpers think: Get that devil's lettuce!!!! So, it becomes one of those untouchable government welfare programs for law enforcement.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 1:26 pm to Robin Masters
quote:This is my opinion. In this particular case, this guy lost his money to the state because he was stupid, ignorant, scared, or some combination of that. He should've consulted a lawyer if he was being asked to sign something in return for being set free (if he thought that was the case). With that much money, he could afford it.
frick CAF but in all honesty if this cat signed over that much money without considering the document then he likely has way more elsewhere and it likely wasn’t procurred legally.
Posted on 12/5/17 at 1:27 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:
How do you feel about Civil Asset Forfeiture and why is this not brought up to fix
Depends on the crime. There are states who seize anything and everything and that sounds alot like theft to me.
I am okay with it in terms of most narcotics related crimes. They're selling drugs and buying lavish homes and autos with the proceeds. No brainer.
I guess, seize if you can prove that the money stolen (or proceeds from crimes) was spent to purchase said items.
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