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Message
2
Posted on 7/6/25 at 5:45 pm to SmackoverHawg
You make some good points and we put crazy emphasis on the "wellness" sector which is way bigger than pharma or other formal healthcare sectors. We act like urgent-care and supplements are going to get the job done. :shrug:
This post was edited on 7/6/25 at 5:46 pm
Posted on 7/6/25 at 5:47 pm to the808bass
link that if you would.
Posted on 7/6/25 at 5:51 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
but things like
Sounds like it's a mixed bag, not "their quality of care is just as good for less money".
You also listed several factors that are largely up to the patient, not the medical system. We have a lot of dumb patients that don't follow basic instructions, and I don't know how you hang those results around their care system.
Posted on 7/6/25 at 5:51 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
You make some good points and we put crazy emphasis on the "wellness" sector which is way bigger than pharma or other formal healthcare sectors. We act like urgent-care and supplements are going to get the job done. :shrug:
I'm just tired of people pointing the fingers at doctors. If you take away all of our income, just pay us zero. People won't even notice it in the total cost of their care. At least half of what we are paid or more goes to overhead dictated by the system. But if you take us away, the system collapses. Give control back to us and away from the administrators. Get rid of Stark laws, let us own our on hospitals, imagining centers etc. Cut out all the unnecessary middle men. Simplify the reimbursement models. AI with sort out the fraud with quickness. Allow us to innovate instead of making us work in a rigid, bullshite system run by bean counters and insurance sociopaths.
Posted on 7/6/25 at 5:54 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
AND YET a number of other countries:
1. Pay far less than we do (almost all OECD countries do).
2. Get as good or better quality.
3. Are as satisfied.
only one of these is an objective measure, and it's flawed, because the amount of treatment we give in US is far greater than anywhere else. Especially, for the elderly, who are damn expensive. This pablum is so tired.
Posted on 7/6/25 at 5:56 pm to Flats
quote:
Sounds like it's a mixed bag, not "their quality of care is just as good for less money".
Yeah, like overall. Their quality is better on some things, worse on others, therefore in total just as good. If you want to focus on just the things we're better at then I agree, we win.
quote:
You also listed several factors that are largely up to the patient, not the medical system. We have a lot of dumb patients that don't follow basic instructions, and I don't know how you hang those results around their care system.
Yes, I will admit that this is true, that lots of other social policies affect people's behavior. if you have paid-for child-care, education, more vacation time, etc., you're going to have better health outcomes that aren't directly due to the care itself. It can be hard to separate out the healthfulness of the country from the system to some degree.
Posted on 7/6/25 at 5:56 pm to Taxing Authority
We pay more per procedure too, though, right? Just medical labor alone. My peers in European countries are comparable to me skill-wise from what I can tell interacting with them, but I make 2x more. I mean, I'm gonna keep cashing my checks obviously, but it runs up the bills system-wide.
This post was edited on 7/6/25 at 5:59 pm
Posted on 7/6/25 at 5:57 pm to the808bass
quote:Anytime someone is using "muh feels" as a performance metric, you can be sure they are full of stuff.
They are “as satisfied” because they don’t know any different.
There also is no objective way to measure government intervention. While we do not have "socialized" medicine, we have more government interventions (mandates) on private providers than many government run systems do.
Inter-country comparisons will always suck. But have you ever noticed, those UHC nations rarely have illegal immigration problems. That should tell you something.
Posted on 7/6/25 at 5:58 pm to the808bass
quote:
We measure infant mortality differently than other nations. You know that.
This is 100% true. I remember them mentioning this in med school. We count abortions, accidents, everything. Other countries are very selective and stop at age 2-3 months. We go out to a year, or we did.
How many meth, crackheads with no prenatal care the "top" countries deal with?
People want the freedom to eat, smoke, frick, and do anything they damn well please while others are supposed to pay the bill. It's bullshite. I say if you want free healthcare, you become a ward of the state. I'll cure your diabetes fatass.
Posted on 7/6/25 at 5:59 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
Anytime someone is using "muh feels" as a performance metric, you can be sure they are full of stuff.
There also is no objective way to measure government intervention. While we do not have "socialized" medicine, we have more government interventions (mandates) on private providers than many government run systems do.
Also, their gov'ts and media tell them how great their system is while our tells everyone how shitty it is.
Posted on 7/6/25 at 6:00 pm to the808bass
quote:
Do they deserve the same care as the person paying for their own care?
Of course they do. This is a core tenet of Christianity. All people are created in the image of God and are equally deserving of care. I don't recall Jesus running a credit check on the leper before healing him..
Posted on 7/6/25 at 6:01 pm to TigerDoc
quote:Not really. You're confusing price and cost.
We pay more per procedure too, though, right?
quote:If you're such a fan, why not emigrate? Stop being greedy.
My peers in European countries are comparable to me skill-wise from what I can tell interacting with them, but I make 2x more. I mean, I'm gonna keep cashing my checks obviously, but it runs up the bills system-wide.
This post was edited on 7/6/25 at 6:02 pm
Posted on 7/6/25 at 6:04 pm to Taxing Authority
LOL. I blame not the myriad foreign doctors that suffer through two residencies to make it in the land of the milk and honey, but I wouldn't trade my job or income to go in the opposite direction just because I support a universal system. I'll take the perks of our system until it arrives (after I retire if ever, most likely)
This post was edited on 7/6/25 at 6:06 pm
Posted on 7/6/25 at 6:04 pm to Grim
quote:
This is a core tenet of Christianity.
No, it’s not.
Appreciate the drive through.
quote:
are equally deserving of care.
Do non-payers deserve the same access to elective surgery?
How about aesthetic surgery? If not, why not?
Posted on 7/6/25 at 6:07 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
Anytime someone is using "muh feels" as a performance metric, you can be sure they are full of stuff. There also is no objective way to measure government intervention. While we do not have "socialized" medicine, we have more government interventions (mandates) on private providers than many government run systems do. Inter-country comparisons will always suck. But have you ever noticed, those UHC nations rarely have illegal immigration problems. That should tell you something.
Feeling like something should be some way instead of another is the whole point of politics. There is no economic basis nor historical evidence that high tariffs will help the US economy but many US citizens feel that economic isolationism is the right thing to do because they want to bring back the mid-century industrial zenith.
Posted on 7/6/25 at 6:07 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
Just because I support a universal system, I'll take the perks of our system until it arrives (after I retire if ever, most likely)
Most hospitals break even on Medicare/Medicaid patients. How would a fully government funded solution be better for you?
Posted on 7/6/25 at 6:08 pm to fallguy_1978
It would be worse for me financially, but depending on how it was implemented it would be better for you (i.e. the average "you"). BTW, a universal system can work a lot of ways and have a huge amount still privatized. I don't necessarily favor universal govt-for-all coverage.
This post was edited on 7/6/25 at 6:10 pm
Posted on 7/6/25 at 6:08 pm to the808bass
"Elective" surgery just means any procedure that isn't an emergency. It doesn't mean the surgery isn't medically necessary. A cholecystectomy, for example, is usually an elective surgery.
And yes, of course everyone deserves equal access to this.
As for "aesthetic" surgeries, in most cases no, they should be paid for by the individual.
And yes, of course everyone deserves equal access to this.
As for "aesthetic" surgeries, in most cases no, they should be paid for by the individual.
Posted on 7/6/25 at 6:11 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
It would be worse for me financially, but depending on how it was implemented it would be better for you (i.e. the average "you").
Wrong. Provider reimbursement has become less than 10% of total spending and that includes our or our employers overhead. Pay to providers isn't the issue, it's all the other unnecessary hands taking cash out of the pot now versus 30-40 years ago and before.
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