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Posted on 8/8/17 at 11:31 am to Jack Ruby
Cuba?
They started with chaos and violence, but been stable since.
Not prosperous mind you, but stable.
They started with chaos and violence, but been stable since.
Not prosperous mind you, but stable.
Posted on 8/8/17 at 11:34 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Probably more economic freedom than the USA.
Socialist when it fits you, and economic freedom when it fits you.
Make up your damn mind.
Posted on 8/8/17 at 11:35 am to Jack Ruby
quote:Has the U.S. ever installed a puppet into a country that DIDN'T end up in chaos and murdering its ppl?
Has a full blown Leftist Government ever NOT ended in chaos and Gov't murdering its ppl?
Posted on 8/8/17 at 11:59 am to BigJim
quote:
Not prosperous mind you, but stable.
You could say the same for North Korea.
Posted on 8/8/17 at 12:08 pm to FeauxPaw
quote:
The USSR broke up without much violence. It surely didn't start out that way
Yes.
But that was not the question asked.
Posted on 8/8/17 at 12:08 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
Socialist when it fits you, and economic freedom when it fits you.
Make up your damn mind.
Link to me calling them socialist?
You simpletons think there are two clearly defined teams
Posted on 8/8/17 at 12:11 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
Socialist when it fits you, and economic freedom when it fits you.
there are 2 forms of authoritarian-left
1. unequal taxation that leads to redistribution of wealth
2. regulation on business
Sweden (i can't speak for Denmark) has high taxes compared to the US but also a vastly decreased number of regulations
a "full blown leftist government' would require expansion in both areas
Posted on 8/8/17 at 12:16 pm to SlowFlowPro
LINK
*ETA: apparently Denmark is similar
quote:
Instead, the Scandinavian countries became a real life version of the old joke about how to make a small fortune; you start with a large one. Sweden took democratic socialist policies further than its neighbors, and as a result its economy fell more steeply. Slowly but steadily the policies of Prime Ministers Tage Erlander and Olof Palme eroded productivity and the long-renowned Scandinavian work ethic. In 1970, Sweden was 25 percent richer than the OECD average. Twenty years later, the average had almost caught up with us. Once the fourth richest country on the planet, Sweden was now the fourteenth.
It was a disaster for entrepreneurship and employment. During this time, not a single job was created in the private sector (on net), despite a growing population. As of 2000, just one of the 50 biggest Swedish companies had been founded after 1970.
As the Social Democratic finance minister Bosse Ringholm admitted in 2002: "If Sweden would have had the same growth rates as the OECD average since 1970, our common resources would have been so much bigger that it would be the equivalent of 20,000 SEK ($2,400) more per household per month."
quote:
But in the early 1990s Sweden began to abandon its brief detour into Bernienomics. It deregulated, privatized, reduced taxes, and opened the public sector to private providers. The two decades that followed saw real wages increase by almost 70 percent.
quote:
In other words, there is no secret about Scandinavia's success, no mystery to be explained. These countries have performed just like any free market economist would have expected. They outgrew other industrialized countries when they had freer markets, and stagnated when they experimented with socialism. Now that they have started reforming their economies again, they are again performing better. "Sweden is the rock star of the recovery," The Washington Post proclaimed in 2011.
*ETA: apparently Denmark is similar
quote:
One reason is that we compensate for them with a more open economy than others. In the summary Fraser Institute rankings, Sweden and Denmark are more economically free than the United States when it comes to legal structure and property rights, sound money, free trade, business regulation, and credit market regulations. We don't have the multitude of occupational licensing laws that block competition in the United States.
This post was edited on 8/8/17 at 12:17 pm
Posted on 8/8/17 at 12:16 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
Sweden. Denmark.
I guess it's safe to assume that you don't know what a "full blown" leftist government would look like.
Sweden and Denmark both have capitalistic economies.
Posted on 8/8/17 at 12:18 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Denmark and Sweden are not socialist nations. Capital is privately owned in both
Posted on 8/8/17 at 12:34 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Link to me calling them socialist?
"You" was plural in that sense, and if you think discussions of the Swedish health care system haven't ever invoked some form of the word 'socialist' from you guys, you (singular this time!) just haven't read them.
Posted on 8/8/17 at 12:44 pm to CptRusty
quote:Individual freedoms and rights are generally considered "liberal" or "left" thinking.
By left leaning, what do you mean here?
Are we "historically" more left leaning that China, Russia, Venezuela, Cuba, Sweden, Denmark, The UK?
You can't be serious.
Posted on 8/8/17 at 12:48 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
ndividual freedoms and rights are generally considered "liberal" or "left" thinking.
in classical liberalism
what is considered "liberal" today only has tangential overlap with some aspects of classical liberalism
when it's "full blown" there is almost no overlap with classical liberalism
Posted on 8/8/17 at 12:50 pm to Jack Ruby
Well, in Nicaragua they had a right wing dictatorship which murdered the people.
Then they had a full blown leftist revolution. The leftist revolutionary government wrote a constitution which called for elected leadership. In the first election the conservative-rightist candidate won. The leftists left power as called for by the constitution they wrote and enacted. They then had to organize and run as a political party like everyone else. They have since been re-elected.
That worked out well for the people of that country as they have a functioning democracy.
Then they had a full blown leftist revolution. The leftist revolutionary government wrote a constitution which called for elected leadership. In the first election the conservative-rightist candidate won. The leftists left power as called for by the constitution they wrote and enacted. They then had to organize and run as a political party like everyone else. They have since been re-elected.
That worked out well for the people of that country as they have a functioning democracy.
This post was edited on 8/8/17 at 12:51 pm
Posted on 8/8/17 at 12:50 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
You" was plural in that sense, and if you think discussions of the Swedish health care system haven't ever invoked some form of the word 'socialist' from you guys, you (singular this time!) just haven't read them.
I'm not on their "team," Daisy Mae.
Your world view is simplistic.
Posted on 8/8/17 at 12:51 pm to Jack Ruby
quote:
ended in chaos and Gov't murdering its ppl?
I think the journey too far down either of the right/left paths ends up that way.
Posted on 8/8/17 at 12:52 pm to BigJim
quote:
Cuba?
They started with chaos and violence, but been stable since.
Not prosperous mind you, but stable.
With lots of dead dissenting bodies.
Posted on 8/8/17 at 12:53 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
Individual freedoms and rights are generally considered "liberal
In a classical sense.
quote:
" or "left" thinking
Not any more
The American left is moving toward authoritarianism.
Posted on 8/8/17 at 12:54 pm to cwill
quote:
I think the journey too far down either of the right/left paths ends up that way.
for sure. more government = more authoritarian rule = more violence
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