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Message
re: God Has A Plan For Your Life
Posted on 5/7/20 at 9:10 pm to lsaltee
Posted on 5/7/20 at 9:10 pm to lsaltee
quote:no. i'm telling you what it means
So you only take one meaning of the word "worship" to fit your narrative
quote:you're acting like god held jesus down against his will. john 10:18
I can "defer authority" without professing that our creator killed his son to save us
quote:link?
to say definitively that this is correct is ignorant from the start
quote:oh my word this thread has brought out the loony tunes. so people who have disabilities have NOTHING in life to be glad about or enjoy. got it. you people aren't even capable of rational discussion on the matter.
very many people afflicted with debilitating diseases and deformations will disagree with you
quote:phil 2:7
so jesus volunteered or was he sent with a single purpose? because he sure was killed in the book
quote:ridiculously stupid analogy. god did not step on a flower. a flower willing gave itself for the plants because the plants were harming themselves in the long run. i can't even fix that analogy it's so dumb
There are more ways to show your other plants you love then than by stepping on a flower and killing it
quote:how is it supposed to be different and how do you know better?
Thats a game i dont even want to play with rules like that
quote:i want to know why you think life should have no suffering and why that would be better. my word it's a simple freaking question and none of you halfwits will answer it
why would an all caring all loving god even have the idea of suffering? why create it at all?
quote:god did not create what those things do. god allowed creation to have free choice; us, the devil. we choose to go our own way sometimes. augustine described that as privatio boni, the absence of the good. if god didn't allow that, you and the sycophants would be screaming that god was unjust for not giving us freewill.
the devil is good, evil is good, sin is good
quote:
killing babies with your holy spirit good
quote:when you won't answer the question, it causes you to make statements like this. first, good does come from these things even though you're too shortsighted to see it. genesis 50:20. second, how is a life without suffering better than this one? god creates a need for our own good. some people are not strong enough to deal with it so they throw a temper tantrum like you're doing. others see the purpose in it. the crazy thing is not believing in god makes all suffering in life purposeless which is philosophically stupid. how in the world should we know life has no purpose if it had no purpose.
giving children cancer and other diseases so they live short painful lives is good?
quote:how could anything "matter" if god doesn't exist? it wouldn't and you wouldn't even know it wouldn't.
so believe in god only and nothing else matters?
quote:does that make it wrong/false?
a book written and composed by man
quote:so people NEVER tell the truth? what if they're inspired by god?
please forgive me if i dont trust "man"
quote:good grief. how old are you? 16? old does not equal false.
especially those 1500-3000 years ago
quote:who said anything like this?
I find it ignorant to blindly believe that the bible just one day magically appeared in its final form as we know it today.
quote:what books were removed? what parts were changed and how would you even know? what parts are inaccurate and how would you know? i have a feeling you know basically nothing about this subject. you probably got these opinions from watching the da vinci code.
It took several hundred years to shape, mold, remove books, translate
quote:what in the world does this have to do with textual and source criticism?
there is absolutely no evidence of any religious leaders carrying out terrible things in the name of their religion
0
Posted on 5/7/20 at 9:19 pm to Azkiger
quote:you are acting like god is not justified for taking lives. i have asked you multiple times now how you know this. you misquoted a bible verse in response which i corrected. let me know when you're ready to answer the question
I didn't smuggle in any morality, I used your own
quote:semantics
You keep saying that God allowed the children to die when the Bible says he sent the Holy Spirit to kill them
quote:you've been corrected on this. see above
You accused me of "smuggling" in my own morality when all I've done is use the Bible's own standards (see Ezekiel 18:20)
quote:i've asked you what difference does it make. prove they are morally innocent and that god is unjustified in taking their lives for ANY reason
You keep trying to suggest that God killed the Egyptian children not because of what Pharaoh refused to do, but because of something they did
so i asked you what i missed or an inconsistency. you provided 3 stupid responses which i had already corrected
quote:my point was it doesn't matter. you criticized american christians for commenting on suffering by citing third world circumstances. it doesn't matter. people in third world countries are followers of christ too so clearly they find common ground even with wealthy american christians and i gave you 2 other historical examples of how this is true so your point is still stupid and wrong
My generalization is correct, though
quote:not that this has anything to do with the point at hand
Christianity is on the decline, most notably in educated communities
quote:show me how they're wrong
Next time provide good examples
Posted on 5/7/20 at 10:16 pm to Azkiger
quote:Of course I touched your critique. Here is what I said:
You've typed and preached a lot but you haven't touched my critique at all.
Do aborted children go to Heaven?
No one is saved apart from Christ, even unborn children. If God so chooses to save a child murdered through abortion, it is His right to do so, and He would do so by imparting saving grace to the child through His Spirit according to His plan of election.
To answer you more succinctly, the answer is both “yes” and “no”.
To expand further, all of God’s elect will go to heaven and there is no reason to assume all children that die are part of the elect. God can save anyone He chooses by imparting a kind of saving faith, even if we don’t understand it entirely. However the normal means that God saves is through the preached word (the gospel message). There is no age of accountability described in scripture.
quote:I actually agree with your complaint here. If all children who die before some supposed age of accountability go straight to heaven, then it would be more compassionate to kill all children before they have the ability to reject the gospel. I don’t believe there is a biblical warrant for an AOA in the scriptures and it actually stems from an emotional reaction built upon an Arminian theology.
If yes, how is it just to expect one group of people to navigate through life, decipher which religion is authentic, and accept Christ while others are given a free, no fail, pass into Heaven?
In terms of what is just vs. what is unjust for God, I would just repeat that all deserve damnation and God would be perfectly just to allow all to perish in our sins and be damned, yet He chose to save some through the propitiatory work of Christ on the cross and the regenerative work of the Spirit in the lives of the elect. It’s all the work of God and He gets all the glory.
Posted on 5/7/20 at 10:19 pm to lsaltee
This thread is a trainwreck
Posted on 5/7/20 at 10:24 pm to lsaltee
quote:god allows us to reject him. but he still loves us enough to let jesus be the atonement for us so that we can be redeemed.
a god that requires sacrifice only because he created the situation that requires it
god requires sacrifice because he cannot be in the presence of unrighteousness. no one would want it any other way. it's kind of like going through a metal detector to get into a secure event. you don't have the right to be there until you do. once you're cleared, you can enter. if it weren't that way, the event would not be secure and the system would be a farce. the sacrifice is what makes us righteous so we can be in his presence. in order to be in his presence a debt must be paid because no one is perfect just like we must surrender our weapons in order to get into the secure event. the sacrifice used to be jewish sacrificial system. now, it is jesus. jesus is the fulfillment of the sacrificial system and judaism in general.
Posted on 5/7/20 at 10:32 pm to lsaltee
quote:what do you mean by "true plan?" we know tons of things. we don't know everything. god has revealed plenty to us.
So we dont know Gods true plan
quote:how could you believe any different? the only thing you could believe is that god doesn't exist. if god exists, then by definition he has our best interests in mind.
we are just supposed to believe he has the best intentions for us in our next life?
quote:where's the problem?
The same god that allows suffering now PROMISES you he wont allow it next time. all you have to do is worship him!
quote:glory is a religious term for compatibility. he is incompatible with unrighteousness or sin or immorality. it's like trying to load windows software on an apple o.s. us glorifying him is us coming into alignment with his purposes/revelation/will. living for him instead of for the world. great question btw.
why does he need such great glory? Why does he need us to glorify him? can hhe not glorify himself enough?
quote:how could god be anything but holy, all the omnis, etc?
How do you know that?
quote:him allowing us to accept or reject him is not him picking winners and losers. this is classic blame shifting.
So he is picking winners and losers and the losers cant complain or question his authority?
quote:god has given you the freedom to not play. just be prepared for the consequences and don't blame god for the results of your choices.
again sounds like a game i dont want to play.
Posted on 5/7/20 at 10:36 pm to UPT
quote:you said something dumb and i gave you the answer. "i don't know more than god but i sure know he's wrong."
you have the lazy answer for all the hard questions
quote:oh i totally agree. it's astonishing to me how badly misunderstood christianity is. yet, critics somehow think they actually do know something and start spraying criticisms all over the place like somebody waving a flamethrower around in a pool
This is how this always goes
Posted on 5/7/20 at 10:36 pm to TCUFan
quote:
How do you know that?
The same way you “know” that Zeus doesn’t have a plan for your life.
Posted on 5/7/20 at 10:41 pm to lsaltee
quote:for the one millionth time, how is that wrong? god loves you so much he gives you every chance in the world to accept him. he created you specifically to have a relationship with him. he gave you every tool you need for that. he even let you know in advance what the consequence is for rejecting him. then he gives you freewill to make your own choice. anything more than that would be nonsensical and you would be mad at god for doing it differently
we were forced into this world with only one way out or you burn in hell FOR ALL ETERNITY
Posted on 5/7/20 at 10:44 pm to lsaltee
quote:what makes you think anything about god is nonchalant?
nonchalantly
quote:show me this verse
we are his pawns according to the book
quote:because he wanted a relationship with us. it's the only explanation for a god who didn't have to create us and that's precisely what he told us over and over in the bible
doesnt seem like he created us out of need therefore he doesnt need us to exist but he created us anyway. Why?
quote:because god revealed it to them
How do you justify that people several thousand years ago got it right?
Posted on 5/7/20 at 10:45 pm to cwill
quote:stop being stubborn
What's the jewish plan?
Posted on 5/7/20 at 10:47 pm to FATBOY TIGER
quote:you wouldn't even know what morality is apart from god. the idea of evolutionary ethics is laughable
Morals are NOT reserved strictly for chrsitians
Posted on 5/7/20 at 10:52 pm to Azkiger
quote:because god can judge people according to their hearts. not only what they have done as a result of their nature but what they will have done if given the chance. god knows all counterfactuals.
But we do know that setting someone on a path where they literally cannot fail no matter what (aborted child) and having someone live to be 80 (what percent of the human population that's ever lived will make it to heaven? Much less than half) are placing people on two totally different playing fields. How is that compatible with being perfectly just?
quote:no, god revealed it to us. that's how we know. and it's been continually substantiated every day of our existence in more ways than we can count
No, we don't know any of that. All we can do is surmise what we can from the evidence we have
quote:you're conflating our moral legal standing with our worldly actions. two totally different things
a perfectly just being setting up a scenario where some people cannot fail, and others have a great chance of failure, isn't just
Posted on 5/7/20 at 11:03 pm to lsaltee
quote:the bible is not god's only revelation
man preserved the wheel and fire longer than the bible has been around
quote:explain how god could not exist
Where is the proof that God exists in the form you believe other than the bible?
quote:there is no religion on earth that is older than the foundational beliefs of christianity
So many other religions some much older than Christianity
quote:give me an example
Why are they wrong?
quote:god is not capable of being lonely. why is it so hard for you to understand he just wanted to have a relationship with us?
he sounds lonely
quote:what bad things does he need to take "credit" for?
just let us imagine that he takes no credit for the bad things
quote:oh my. god is just god. however he does allow created beings to act in the absence of his nature, the privatio boni. it's their freewill.
If god is all things he is good and evil
quote:that's exactly how it is and you wouldn't want it any other way. every person operates from the desire to acknowledge foundational truth. even postmodernists and relativists.
My point being that we lack understanding and to say that one person or a group of people have it exactly right and if you dont believe the way this group does you will burn in hell
quote:the vast majority of every person who has ever lived has felt that god is with us through good times and bad. almost no one agrees with your last sentence.
if he cared so much where is he? why do we have to wonder if he is there? it sure feels like the creator does not give a crap and creates and disposes of us at will
quote:is it wrong?
according to the man written bible
quote:your conception of god is absolutely bizarre
that feels like stockholm syndrome
quote:such as?
really shitty rules
quote:how is this wrong? i wonder if anyone will ever answer this question
enables suffering
quote:you wouldn't want it any other way. that's how truth works
creates only one way out and thats through him
quote:no they don't. every example you give is going to be ignorant. mary jo sharp has done some good work at the popular level on this topic
many religions claim the same thing
quote:we know what we need to know that's for sure
we dont have all the facts
Posted on 5/7/20 at 11:18 pm to theunknownknight
quote:it's the same thing every time. some halfwits that learned about religion from the back of a crackerjack box start condescendingly spitballing criticisms of christianity when they don't really know the first thing about it. it's like a 1st grader saying "i don't like how scientists explain the facts of quantum physics.
This thread is a trainwreck
it's the same list of hilarious crap every time:
covenant confusion
suffering
false dilemma of science and religion
conflating institutional religion with spiritual truth
absurd moral relativism
ignorant criticisms of special revelation
soteriological misunderstandings
Posted on 5/8/20 at 7:49 am to bfniii
quote:
you wouldn't even know what morality is apart from god
Funny, I've seen monkeys in the wild die with a baby on the tit, another monkey adopts the baby and raises it as its own.
Is this gods work or evolution?
Of course, one we need to a assume the monkey has a relationship with god to have morals.
Posted on 5/8/20 at 9:44 am to FATBOY TIGER
quote:How is what you described the result of moral reasoning?
Funny, I've seen monkeys in the wild die with a baby on the tit, another monkey adopts the baby and raises it as its own.
Is this gods work or evolution?
Of course, one we need to a assume the monkey has a relationship with god to have morals.
I believe the statement that we wouldn’t know what morality is apart from God is to say that God is the perfect standard for goodness which evil is contrasted against. Without God, we wouldn’t have an objective standard to compare right and wrong against, which would remove all inherent obligation to act “morally” since what is moral would be the result of arbitrary, individual preference and not an “ought”.
Posted on 5/8/20 at 9:59 am to bfniii
so we are 1st graders talking to quantum physicists? Got it. How dare we question your all knowing authority of Christianity.
The fact that you are ok with a creator that allows suffering when he as the absolute power to change that is just baffling to me. and your answer to that is "whats wrong with that".
Thanks scientist for explaining it to us dummies.
talking down to people will really help spread gods word. keep up the hard work!
The fact that you are ok with a creator that allows suffering when he as the absolute power to change that is just baffling to me. and your answer to that is "whats wrong with that".
Thanks scientist for explaining it to us dummies.
talking down to people will really help spread gods word. keep up the hard work!
Posted on 5/8/20 at 10:08 am to FooManChoo
quote:
How is what you described the result of moral reasoning
I'm not. I'm saying, one doesn't need to know or have a relationship with god to have morals.
In christians scenario, it's like saying B.C., there were NO good moral people.
Indigenous people didn't/don't know of christ yet, were/are some very good moral people.
Because you now know of god and yet turn away and not accept him, you are a sinner and cannot be moral?
I don't accept that pretense or understand that thought process.
Just doesn't work for me.
Signed, Simpleton.
Posted on 5/8/20 at 10:09 am to FATBOY TIGER
quote:
Indigenous people didn't/don't know of christ yet, were/are some very good moral people.
The ones that killed and enslaved each other?
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