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Started By
Message
re: ‘Getting worse by the hour’: FNC reports Bergdahl renounced US citizenship
Posted on 6/4/14 at 9:43 am to DeltaDoc
Posted on 6/4/14 at 9:43 am to DeltaDoc
At the risk of being pummeled for daring to go against the board's PC let me answer your questions by referring you to the Rolling Stone article of 2012 LINK
What's unique about this article is the obvious that it's from two years ago and not subject to the current political spin by either side.
To summarize, Berghdal joined the army believing that he would be helping Afghans rise up from the struggles they've faced aged the Taliban and the war. Wanting to be part of the rebuilding. However that was in 2009 when Obama's surge was about to take place and tens of thousands of troops were being sent in to retake the worst of the country. It was also a time when standards were lowered for recruiting.
Bergdahl was sent to the Desert for a month to undergo intense training. His squad were known as the biggest frickups. Things didn't change when they were sent to Afghanistan. His letters describing the clusterfrick were corroborated by a video report from The Guardian showing how bad things were and that included the officers. Heads rolled but Bergdahl thought the lowly grunts were being blamed for the incompetency of the higher ups.
He thought they were doing anything but winning the hearts and minds of the Afghans. In fact the locals didn't want them there because to associate with them would mean punishment by the Taliban. He wrote his father of the heartless acts of some Americans in running over kids and laughing about it. He grew disillusioned with the mission as did many of his fellow soldiers but the difference was the others commiserated with one another whereas Berdahl pulled away.
There's no indication at all that he was a Taliban sympathizer. If angry he was an Afghan sympathizer. His emails reminds me of the horror stories we hear about atrocities committed in Nam. And we know from the nutjob soldier who mowed down 17 innocent Afghans that there was at least that. But Bergdahl saw it as systemic problem with the military and that we were the enemies of the Afghans in effect. Again, he never gave any inclination that he thought the Taliban was good. Quite the opposite.
So he took a hike, hoping to get to Pakistan. It didn't seem to be a secret. He talked about it go soldiers there. That's how bad morale was that no one really put up much of an objection except to tell him if he leaves with sensitive equipment there will be a problem.
The videos show an emancipated badly treated Bergdahl. There was a report that he attempted to escape and put up a good fight. The Taliban knew of his value and kept him in areas free from drone strikes.
What's interesting is the debate that went on in the WH, Pentagon, state and Congress about his release back in 2012. Reportedly McCain opposed the 5 man Gitmo swap but gave in at least then. Other Reps threatened to make the 5 Obama's Willie Horton of the 2012 election. So because of political pressure and balking from the hardcore Taliban, serious negotiations fell thru.
But there was a faction in the admin who thought such a swap could lead to more talks for the eventual withdrawal.
His fathers weirdness was attempts to reach out to the Taliban to save his son as were Bergdahl's propaganda videos.
My take: if this is an actual war, when does it end? How long do we keep Taliban prisoners? After we leave Afghanistan? How long do we keep Gitmo open? Even Bush agreed it needed to be eventually closed? How long does Congress block it's closing?
This was a prisoner swap. Way way one sided but most are if you look at Israel and Hamas and the US with insurgents in Iraq (the Rolling Stone article brings this up). The Reps knew this would happen so they included that 30 day clause in a much larger bill to give them time to stop it. Obama knew what they were up to and did a signing statement claiming it was an unconstitutional restriction on his power as CIC.
Obama did this because he wanted to bring an American home, even though he was a deserter, and to move towards negotiations with Taliban which will happen with our withdrawal. And he refused to back down from pressure from the Right and probably knew knew that spineless Dems would jump ship.
We have no business in Afghanistan. We have no business leaving Gitmo open. Obama caved to the hawks in his administration and we suffered greater casualties under him than Bush there. He finally grew a spine. He's getting out and frick the political consequences. No more listening to the Hawks (by the way Hillary and Panetta opposed this in 2012.
Frankly his policy in Afghanistan has been my biggest disappointment of his presidency. I'm hopeful I'm right and this is part of our withdrawal, finally.
Now ill let you guys get back to your wild theories and speculation and I'll return to my snarks.
Ps I'm sure I have many typos. I'm on a plane using my phone. And we're about to land.
What's unique about this article is the obvious that it's from two years ago and not subject to the current political spin by either side.
To summarize, Berghdal joined the army believing that he would be helping Afghans rise up from the struggles they've faced aged the Taliban and the war. Wanting to be part of the rebuilding. However that was in 2009 when Obama's surge was about to take place and tens of thousands of troops were being sent in to retake the worst of the country. It was also a time when standards were lowered for recruiting.
Bergdahl was sent to the Desert for a month to undergo intense training. His squad were known as the biggest frickups. Things didn't change when they were sent to Afghanistan. His letters describing the clusterfrick were corroborated by a video report from The Guardian showing how bad things were and that included the officers. Heads rolled but Bergdahl thought the lowly grunts were being blamed for the incompetency of the higher ups.
He thought they were doing anything but winning the hearts and minds of the Afghans. In fact the locals didn't want them there because to associate with them would mean punishment by the Taliban. He wrote his father of the heartless acts of some Americans in running over kids and laughing about it. He grew disillusioned with the mission as did many of his fellow soldiers but the difference was the others commiserated with one another whereas Berdahl pulled away.
There's no indication at all that he was a Taliban sympathizer. If angry he was an Afghan sympathizer. His emails reminds me of the horror stories we hear about atrocities committed in Nam. And we know from the nutjob soldier who mowed down 17 innocent Afghans that there was at least that. But Bergdahl saw it as systemic problem with the military and that we were the enemies of the Afghans in effect. Again, he never gave any inclination that he thought the Taliban was good. Quite the opposite.
So he took a hike, hoping to get to Pakistan. It didn't seem to be a secret. He talked about it go soldiers there. That's how bad morale was that no one really put up much of an objection except to tell him if he leaves with sensitive equipment there will be a problem.
The videos show an emancipated badly treated Bergdahl. There was a report that he attempted to escape and put up a good fight. The Taliban knew of his value and kept him in areas free from drone strikes.
What's interesting is the debate that went on in the WH, Pentagon, state and Congress about his release back in 2012. Reportedly McCain opposed the 5 man Gitmo swap but gave in at least then. Other Reps threatened to make the 5 Obama's Willie Horton of the 2012 election. So because of political pressure and balking from the hardcore Taliban, serious negotiations fell thru.
But there was a faction in the admin who thought such a swap could lead to more talks for the eventual withdrawal.
His fathers weirdness was attempts to reach out to the Taliban to save his son as were Bergdahl's propaganda videos.
My take: if this is an actual war, when does it end? How long do we keep Taliban prisoners? After we leave Afghanistan? How long do we keep Gitmo open? Even Bush agreed it needed to be eventually closed? How long does Congress block it's closing?
This was a prisoner swap. Way way one sided but most are if you look at Israel and Hamas and the US with insurgents in Iraq (the Rolling Stone article brings this up). The Reps knew this would happen so they included that 30 day clause in a much larger bill to give them time to stop it. Obama knew what they were up to and did a signing statement claiming it was an unconstitutional restriction on his power as CIC.
Obama did this because he wanted to bring an American home, even though he was a deserter, and to move towards negotiations with Taliban which will happen with our withdrawal. And he refused to back down from pressure from the Right and probably knew knew that spineless Dems would jump ship.
We have no business in Afghanistan. We have no business leaving Gitmo open. Obama caved to the hawks in his administration and we suffered greater casualties under him than Bush there. He finally grew a spine. He's getting out and frick the political consequences. No more listening to the Hawks (by the way Hillary and Panetta opposed this in 2012.
Frankly his policy in Afghanistan has been my biggest disappointment of his presidency. I'm hopeful I'm right and this is part of our withdrawal, finally.
Now ill let you guys get back to your wild theories and speculation and I'll return to my snarks.
Ps I'm sure I have many typos. I'm on a plane using my phone. And we're about to land.
Posted on 6/4/14 at 9:49 am to Vegas Bengal
Nice post.
I'm waiting for more info before goin all "snarky".
Everyone must be reading the RS article
I'm waiting for more info before goin all "snarky".
Everyone must be reading the RS article
This post was edited on 6/4/14 at 9:55 am
Posted on 6/4/14 at 10:08 am to Vegas Bengal
quote:
There's no indication at all that he was a Taliban sympathizer.
Ok there's no way you believe this
Posted on 6/4/14 at 10:19 am to Vegas Bengal
quote:
Again, he never gave any inclination that he thought the Taliban was good. Quite the opposite.
So he took a hike, hoping to get to Pakistan.
Posted on 6/4/14 at 10:20 am to Vegas Bengal
quote:
There's no indication at all that he was a Taliban sympathizer
Would you call his dad a Taliban sympathizer?
Posted on 6/4/14 at 10:21 am to monsterballads
VB, we are not leaving Afghanistan...we will still have, at a minimum, 10,000 deployed to that country for the foreseeable future.
I think your assessment about Gitmo has merit. I don't necessarily agree with what should be done moving forward, but I also don't agree with indefinitely holding people with no trial either.
I also think that what you are saying relative to Bergdahl would make more sense if he were legitimately captured in combat.
That is not the case. A similar situation happened in the Korean War and we did not go after the guy...he deserted or defected and some intelligence suggests actually aided the enemy from a tactical standpoint.
We were told this was done for his health yet the video released by the Taliban shows what appears to be a healthy Bergdahl - certainly not someone within 30 days of dying.
Truth be told, I have no clue why Obama has done what he has done. It appears as though the timing was political in nature - but that still does not explain doing what has been done in the grand scheme of things.
I think your assessment about Gitmo has merit. I don't necessarily agree with what should be done moving forward, but I also don't agree with indefinitely holding people with no trial either.
I also think that what you are saying relative to Bergdahl would make more sense if he were legitimately captured in combat.
That is not the case. A similar situation happened in the Korean War and we did not go after the guy...he deserted or defected and some intelligence suggests actually aided the enemy from a tactical standpoint.
We were told this was done for his health yet the video released by the Taliban shows what appears to be a healthy Bergdahl - certainly not someone within 30 days of dying.
Truth be told, I have no clue why Obama has done what he has done. It appears as though the timing was political in nature - but that still does not explain doing what has been done in the grand scheme of things.
Posted on 6/4/14 at 10:50 am to volmaverick
so they give us someone that use to be a citizen and we give them 5 leaders...and so the person they gave us goes right back with the 5 leaders...nothing was accomplished other than merely us freeing terrorists....well done obama
Posted on 6/4/14 at 11:00 am to Vegas Bengal
quote:
Obama caved to the hawks in his administration and we suffered greater casualties under him than Bush there.
If only he'd grown a spine in Sept 2012. Maybe he thought he'd have more flexibility after he was re-elected? It must be a hellish existence to constantly be on guard against revealing your true nature to the electorate.
Posted on 6/4/14 at 11:05 am to Vegas Bengal
quote:
Obama did this because he wanted to bring an American home, even though he was a deserter, and to move towards negotiations with Taliban which will happen with our withdrawal. And he refused to back down from pressure from the Right and probably knew knew that spineless Dems would jump ship.
Laughable.
Obama is an incompetent lying fool. He beat his chest against war as those for it did, in 2008.
He was going to be the man who within a few years, had guantanamo closed and the war over.
Instead he has prolonged the war through 2016. Not to mention how he was considering starting up another conflict in Syria.
The lengths you just went to defend Obama are magnificent. Very impressive.
Posted on 6/4/14 at 11:06 am to WG_Tiger23
Bergdahl kidnapped the Lindbergh baby
Posted on 6/4/14 at 11:12 am to Cosmo
quote:This is about the third or fourth time I have read this on here, must be true.
Bergdahl kidnapped the Lindbergh baby
Posted on 6/4/14 at 11:13 am to WG_Tiger23
quote:
The lengths you just went to defend Obama are magnificent. Very impressive.
Well, that is VB's job - defend the indefensible - at all costs - regardless of the evidence.
Posted on 6/4/14 at 11:15 am to WG_Tiger23
Well, he actually said Afghanistan was the "Right War." After he was elected, he promptly gave AF the same amount of attention that the average woman gives oil changes in her vehicle.
Posted on 6/4/14 at 12:21 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
10pm - Bergdahl Raped Her, Murdered Her, Murdered Her Children
11pm - Bergdahl is seen hiding in the bushes of a Brentwood, CA mansion wearing black gloves and carrying a knife.
Posted on 6/4/14 at 12:52 pm to son of arlo
quote:
Well, he actually said Afghanistan was the "Right War." After he was elected, he promptly gave AF the same amount of attention that the average woman gives oil changes in her vehicle.
Perhaps he was waiting for the "red light thingy that tells him when".
Posted on 6/4/14 at 12:53 pm to Vegas Bengal
I'm surprised that you missed the part where Bergdahl walked on water, made the blind to see and raised the dead.
Posted on 6/4/14 at 1:03 pm to Lsut81
quote:
Part of the deal was for him to renounce his renouncement of his citizenship and sign up for Obamacare
Posted on 6/4/14 at 2:16 pm to Vegas Bengal
That's an interesting Rolling Stones article. IMO, it sheds a lot of light on a somewhat unique situation.
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