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re: George Flyod Bodycam Transcript Released
Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:22 pm to Ace Midnight
Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:22 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
He might have coded anyway, but the circumstances overall result in a bad PR hit for the Minneapolis PD (perhaps their demise) AND a bad hit for the nation.
If they had rolled him on his side and he still died, there’s a decent chance that history is severely changed.
2
Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:22 pm to Seldom Seen
So this case is much more nuanced than the media originally reported?
Reading this transcript is like reading the transcript from the black box of an airline crash, without the visual emotion it makes it a much different case.
Were mistakes made? Yes. Were they malicious? Much harder to determine,
Reading this transcript is like reading the transcript from the black box of an airline crash, without the visual emotion it makes it a much different case.
Were mistakes made? Yes. Were they malicious? Much harder to determine,
Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:24 pm to Seldom Seen
Chauvin doesn't stand a chance. But from this transcript, he clearly did not mean to kill the guy. That being said, he will be found guilty because he's already been convicted. The outrage and backlash that would result if he wasn't would be nuclear. Should he have knelt on the dude. No. But did he intentionally kill the guy? No way. This is a really really sad situation....all the way around.
Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:27 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:It depends.
"the opposite" of good for breathing.
quote:
Placing patients in the prone position relieves the effects of gravity and opens up new regions of lung tissue for air and gas exchange. In this position, the heart no longer weighs heavily on the lung tissue, but instead rests against the sternum. Lung tissue at the back of the thoracic cavity is relieved of the burden of gravity and is more capable of expansion and gas exchange. Some patients with ARDS have seen marked improvements in oxygen saturations from proning alone.
Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:29 pm to Sidicous
quote:
According to MN police advisory people experiencing drug induced delirium are better off face down prone.
No. From your link:
quote:
Adjust your restraint tactics. "People are designed to fight what is in front of them, and officers are almost universally trained to place individuals into a prone position because of safety and control advantages. This position may make it more difficult for the person to breathe, and this concern is heightened when dealing with ED." Therefore, once control is achieved, "the subject should be placed on his side if this can be done without creating an unreasonable risk to officers or others. As soon as he is controlled, hand him off to the medics."
Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:29 pm to Sidicous
quote:
Wrong.
According to MN police advisory people experiencing drug induced delirium are better off face down prone. Remember the training and advisory documents?
Here's something from 2005 Police 1: 10 training tips for excited delirium
Of course but we aren't dealing with facts, reason, nor logic here.
Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:34 pm to baybeefeetz
I'd definitely assert that there was no intent to kill. BUT that's not the only way to get to the felony murder standard. That's one of the two ways, the other being a death that results during the commission of another felony offense. Which is what the prosecution's going with here.
So they've first got to prove that Chauvin committed a separate felony against Floyd, which I believe will be felony assault, perhaps third degree assault which includes the terminology "assaulted a person resulting in substantial bodily harm." Third degree is categorized as a felony in Minnesota.
So if they can prove that, and then prove that the aforementioned felony assault at least in part contributed to Floyd's death....one could envision a path to state's securing a felony murder verdict.
**I'm not being a proponent of anything one way or another, only an opinion as to the prosecution's probable strategy.
So they've first got to prove that Chauvin committed a separate felony against Floyd, which I believe will be felony assault, perhaps third degree assault which includes the terminology "assaulted a person resulting in substantial bodily harm." Third degree is categorized as a felony in Minnesota.
So if they can prove that, and then prove that the aforementioned felony assault at least in part contributed to Floyd's death....one could envision a path to state's securing a felony murder verdict.
**I'm not being a proponent of anything one way or another, only an opinion as to the prosecution's probable strategy.
Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:38 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:Reading WAY down the linked page, again from 2005, it states once subdued and under control to roll the person on their into the recovery position. References medical/EMS on site, or en route, just prior also. But it's talking in the generality, not specifically heart attack. The document does mention lull before storm can occur.
Is that good medicine, though? I mean, that's what they did and he died.
Maybe they should re-think that. I'll defer to any doctors out there, but having to apply pressure to a prone subject sounds like it would be "the opposite" of good for breathing.
I'm just a lawyer. What do I know?
(ETA: I'm pretty sure this was a drug cocktail that triggered a heart attack, but the knee to the carotid, prone, couldn't have helped that in any way, IMHO.)
The pressure was applied to the posterior neck, not the carotids which are lateral. Perhaps carotid compression occurred due to obesity shifting tissues (like squeezing a balloon), but that would be coroners report stuff. If you grab someone by the throat/back of the neck, your thumb and fingertips are on the carotids roughly.
The bottom line is still the guy should not have died under the knee of the cop.
However, a case for murder based on just facts is not a slam dunk.
Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:38 pm to davyjones
Didn’t the MN AG upgrade the charges to second degree?
It’s gonna be tough to get there with this transcript. But I think most of us suspected that was overcharged.
It’s gonna be tough to get there with this transcript. But I think most of us suspected that was overcharged.
Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:38 pm to WildManGoose
Fair enough, but I would assume this is under optimal conditions (not prone on asphault/concrete and not having pressure applied to the thoracic cavity or neck)?
Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:40 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
I'm pretty sure this was a drug cocktail that triggered a heart attack, but the knee to the carotid, prone, couldn't have helped that in any way,
I’m pretty sure it wasn’t a heart attack. The coroner said cardiopulmonary arrest but that’s how we all die.
Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:45 pm to Seldom Seen
When is his monument going up? Can’t wait!
Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:45 pm to the808bass
quote:
Didn’t the MN AG upgrade the charges to second degree?
They did, which is I guess same thing as "felony murder" (unintentional type) in other states.
"Subdivision 2 (1)"
second degree murder in Minnesota
Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:49 pm to davyjones
Yeah, I know. Substantial bodily injury. Was there any of that here?
Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:52 pm to pennypacker3
Three Gold funerals with national media to glorify
Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:54 pm to the808bass
quote:
If they had rolled him on his side and he still died, there’s a decent chance that history is severely changed.
No way, facts don’t matter, reality doesn’t matter.
Michael Brown comes to mind, the gentle giant that casually robs and threatens a shell of a man then reaches into a cop car while high as frick
Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:55 pm to baybeefeetz
It will certainly be tricky for the prosecution given the differing autopsy findings, but asphyxiation would be the substantial bodily injury alleged.
Also of note is the inclusion of not only " while committing" another felony offense, but also "while attempting to commit" same.
Also of note is the inclusion of not only " while committing" another felony offense, but also "while attempting to commit" same.
Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:56 pm to Mizzoufan26
Still blame the Ferguson police for allowing that. They had the footage of the robbery within a few hours and didn’t release it for over a week.
Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:58 pm to Seldom Seen
"I don't know how to spell George sir" 
Posted on 7/8/20 at 6:58 pm to gthog61
quote:
I don't know law
No shite, Sherlock
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