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Message
Follow up to Sec. Ed., re: vouchers
Posted on 11/23/16 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 11/23/16 at 1:02 pm
In the other thread, the new ed. secretary nominee was mentioned as being pro-voucher, which Trump supposedly supports. However, while I don't disagree with the idea of vouchers, I can tell you that they will not be the panacea many conservatives think they will be, In fact, the vast majority of private schools will, IMO, refuse to be part of the program, for two reasons.
1. In Tennessee, the voucher is worth about $6,000. Schools must accept the voucher as payment in full. The cost to attend Goodpasture Christian in Nashville is about $11,000 a year. Ensworth is $28,000. That difference will have to be made up from the school's existing financial aid budget...which has probably already been allocated. Funding financial aid is more complicated than just giving students a discount. Accepting vouchers would require raising more funds for financial aid to make up the difference. Oh...you also have to feed the kids for free.
2. Most reputable Christian schools will refuse to participate, because they don't want to start taking government money. Oh, sure, you might have some substandard "school" meeting in a church basement that will accept them. But most good schools won't. When you start taking government money, then you accept government regulations. Many may not realize that private schools already are entitled to some federal funds every year. Every Christian school head I have known refuses to take the money, because they don't want to have to go down that road. For example, there is one private Christian school in Murfreesboro that has an outstanding baseball facility, which every year hosts state tournament games. By comparison, their softball field is a cow pasture. As soon as they accept a school voucher, they will be hit with a Title IX lawsuit. Another example could be LGBT issues. This whole bathroom brouhaha? As soon as a Christian school taxes a dollar from the state or the feds, they will have to comply with all the same regulations. The idea of accepting government funds is anathema to Christian school heads.
Don't get me wrong...I'm not opposed to vouchers in theory. I just think, based on personal experiences and conversations with private school heads, conservatives are going to be very, very disappointed when those vouchers aren't worth anything.
1. In Tennessee, the voucher is worth about $6,000. Schools must accept the voucher as payment in full. The cost to attend Goodpasture Christian in Nashville is about $11,000 a year. Ensworth is $28,000. That difference will have to be made up from the school's existing financial aid budget...which has probably already been allocated. Funding financial aid is more complicated than just giving students a discount. Accepting vouchers would require raising more funds for financial aid to make up the difference. Oh...you also have to feed the kids for free.
2. Most reputable Christian schools will refuse to participate, because they don't want to start taking government money. Oh, sure, you might have some substandard "school" meeting in a church basement that will accept them. But most good schools won't. When you start taking government money, then you accept government regulations. Many may not realize that private schools already are entitled to some federal funds every year. Every Christian school head I have known refuses to take the money, because they don't want to have to go down that road. For example, there is one private Christian school in Murfreesboro that has an outstanding baseball facility, which every year hosts state tournament games. By comparison, their softball field is a cow pasture. As soon as they accept a school voucher, they will be hit with a Title IX lawsuit. Another example could be LGBT issues. This whole bathroom brouhaha? As soon as a Christian school taxes a dollar from the state or the feds, they will have to comply with all the same regulations. The idea of accepting government funds is anathema to Christian school heads.
Don't get me wrong...I'm not opposed to vouchers in theory. I just think, based on personal experiences and conversations with private school heads, conservatives are going to be very, very disappointed when those vouchers aren't worth anything.
This post was edited on 11/23/16 at 1:05 pm
5
Posted on 11/23/16 at 1:07 pm to BamaGradinTn
You've given some extreme examples. Most private schools don't cost anywhere near what your have referenced. Most Catholic schools I have been familiar with in Louisiana charge 5,000-9,000 per student. Any school charging upwards of $12,000 per student probably wouldn't participate in a voucher program of any type.
Most of the problems with vouchers are due to the implementation and restrictions, not the voucher system itself.
In Louisiana, I think you had to sign up for the system and take whoever they sent you. This caused some problems. For regular paying students, the schools were able to have testing and an interview process, but not voucher kids. This caused many schools to lose interest.
Most of the problems with vouchers are due to the implementation and restrictions, not the voucher system itself.
In Louisiana, I think you had to sign up for the system and take whoever they sent you. This caused some problems. For regular paying students, the schools were able to have testing and an interview process, but not voucher kids. This caused many schools to lose interest.
Posted on 11/23/16 at 1:08 pm to BamaGradinTn
quote:
In Tennessee, the voucher is worth about $6,000. Schools must accept the voucher as payment in full.
That's just one implementation of it. It's not necessary to be implemented in such a fashion.
Posted on 11/23/16 at 1:20 pm to the808bass
quote:
That's just one implementation of it. It's not necessary to be implemented in such a fashion.
What I mentioned is what was passed in the Tennessee legislature. They absolutely cannot charge one penny more than the amount of the voucher. Different states can do things differently. But you still have the issue of inviting government education.
Posted on 11/23/16 at 1:22 pm to BamaGradinTn
If I was a private school, I would refuse to participate in the voucher program. No good comes from sending bad, unfit and undisciplined students to create chaos at a new environment.
Posted on 11/23/16 at 1:24 pm to BamaGradinTn
Bringing up Ensworth as an example is dishonest.
Posted on 11/23/16 at 1:26 pm to DupontsCircle
Many of these private schools, however, are struggling financially. Vouchers can give them a shot in the arm, while also helping kids stuck in a shitty public school.
Posted on 11/23/16 at 1:27 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
Most Catholic schools I have been familiar with in Louisiana charge 5,000-9,000 per student.
The voucher in La is only ~$4k which is the same as the MFP money public schools receive from the fed. It doesn't cover all of the other costs of going to a private school beyond tuition. This program will fail miserably and only give Dems more reasons to cry racism.
Posted on 11/23/16 at 1:28 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
You've given some extreme examples. Most private schools don't cost anywhere near what your have referenced.
Not here in middle Tennessee. Even MTCS in Murfreesboro is $10,000 a year. St. Rose Catholic School in Murfreesboro is $15,000 for Catholics and $20,000 for non-Catholics.
quote:
In Louisiana, I think you had to sign up for the system and take whoever they sent you.
This is true also in Tennessee, I think.
Posted on 11/23/16 at 1:30 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
Bringing up Ensworth as an example is dishonest.
How so? I gave you an example of a private Christian school in Nashville and a private secular, college prep school. I could have used MBA, Webb, or another one. Rub a couple of brain cells together and tell me...what's so dishonest about that? Don't just babble. What schools would you suggest I use?
This post was edited on 11/23/16 at 1:31 pm
Posted on 11/23/16 at 1:32 pm to BamaGradinTn
It's dishonest, because those schools would not be participating in the voucher program, under any circumstance. No school with a full enrollment would.
Posted on 11/23/16 at 1:33 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
Many of these private schools, however, are struggling financially.
Exactly. The Christian schools I mentioned...and I can give you several other examples here in middle Tennessee...are reputable, well funded, and doing well. They aren't going to take vouchers. The fly-by-night school meeting in the basement of some church building might.
Posted on 11/23/16 at 1:36 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
It's dishonest, because those schools would not be participating in the voucher program, under any circumstance. No school with a full enrollment would.
You make absolutely zero sense. If they are fully enrolled, why do they advertise? News flash...they aren't. Second, my whole point is exactly what you said, for different reasons. Conservatives are going to be disappointed when (a) they can't get a voucher, and (b) it's worthless anyway because they won't be able to find a reputable school to take them.
This post was edited on 11/23/16 at 1:38 pm
Posted on 11/23/16 at 1:39 pm to BamaGradinTn
They advertise because they have to fill up a new class each year with new students. They also advertise to attract top quality students. My kids go to a Catholic school that turns away a large percentage of applicants, yet advertises.
You do not make sense.
You do not make sense.
Posted on 11/23/16 at 1:40 pm to BamaGradinTn
School vouchers are just a mean for conservatives to brainwash children into being sheep without the ability to think critically.
Posted on 11/23/16 at 1:41 pm to CaptainBrannigan
quote:
School vouchers are just a mean for conservatives to brainwash children into being sheep without the ability to think critically.
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