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Flawed analysis, failed oversight: How Boeing, FAA certified the suspect 737 MAX
Posted on 3/19/19 at 8:23 am
Posted on 3/19/19 at 8:23 am
LINK
“As Boeing hustled in 2015 to catch up to Airbus and certify its new 737 MAX, Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) managers pushed the agency’s safety engineers to delegate safety assessments to Boeing itself, and to speedily approve the resulting analysis.
But the original safety analysis that Boeing delivered to the FAA for a new flight control system on the MAX — a report used to certify the plane as safe to fly — had several crucial flaws“
A reminder that human nature being what it is (not inherently good), that deregulation has its limits...as does the expansion of government power.
“As Boeing hustled in 2015 to catch up to Airbus and certify its new 737 MAX, Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) managers pushed the agency’s safety engineers to delegate safety assessments to Boeing itself, and to speedily approve the resulting analysis.
But the original safety analysis that Boeing delivered to the FAA for a new flight control system on the MAX — a report used to certify the plane as safe to fly — had several crucial flaws“
A reminder that human nature being what it is (not inherently good), that deregulation has its limits...as does the expansion of government power.
7
Posted on 3/19/19 at 8:24 am to Boatshoes
This is fake news. It's Trump's fault because reasons
Posted on 3/19/19 at 8:25 am to Boatshoes
Free markets are doing a good job of reacting.
Posted on 3/19/19 at 8:31 am to Mr.Perfect
“Free markets are doing a good job of reacting.“
The free market had Boeing and the FAA in “deny there is a problem and lawyer up” mode until President Trump grounded the plane.
Not to mention a couple of hundred dead people to get to this point.
The free market had Boeing and the FAA in “deny there is a problem and lawyer up” mode until President Trump grounded the plane.
Not to mention a couple of hundred dead people to get to this point.
This post was edited on 3/19/19 at 8:32 am
Posted on 3/19/19 at 8:36 am to Boatshoes
quote:
The free market had Boeing and the FAA in “deny there is a problem and lawyer up” mode until President Trump grounded the plane.
Not really a free market when the FAA if supposed to protect the consumer. Just another shitty bureaucracy
Posted on 3/19/19 at 8:41 am to Boatshoes
The FAA approved this design and let Boeing sell these flying death traps. I predict we'll never know the real truth as to why this airplane was allowed to fly. The truth is hidden in the bowels of the FAA bureaucracy.
I will say this. Do we know when this design was drafted? Do we know when the prototype was tested and who approved the design and what was the qualifications and industry experience of the folks in the approval process. More important.......under what administration in Washington was this airplane tested, manufactured, and approved for sale to customers.
Bottom line.....346 victims and many many anguished and broken family members.
I will say this. Do we know when this design was drafted? Do we know when the prototype was tested and who approved the design and what was the qualifications and industry experience of the folks in the approval process. More important.......under what administration in Washington was this airplane tested, manufactured, and approved for sale to customers.
Bottom line.....346 victims and many many anguished and broken family members.
This post was edited on 3/19/19 at 9:12 am
Posted on 3/19/19 at 8:45 am to Boatshoes
So the free markets grounded the plane. I’m not following you
Posted on 3/19/19 at 8:45 am to Boatshoes
Government gives monopoly control over testing plane safety and readiness to a governmental bureaucracy. Said governmental bureaucracy fails. Blame failure on free market and call for more governmental bureaucracy.
Never fails.
Never fails.
Posted on 3/19/19 at 8:49 am to nugget
quote:The heinous FAA certification process is why Boeing tried to bodge the thing together rather than start new or heavily modify the airframe. Had they made a new type certification it would have taken years longer to have a viable aircraft.
Not really a free market when the FAA if supposed to protect the consumer. Just another shitty bureaucracy
Posted on 3/19/19 at 8:50 am to Joshjrn
quote:
Never fails.
Amazing isn't it? Do they teach economics any more?
Posted on 3/19/19 at 8:50 am to Taxing Authority
I thought the software in question was forced on boeing by the FAA to get certification?
Posted on 3/19/19 at 8:54 am to Boatshoes
One of the interesting things I’ve read about this is how, in a round about way, it is our environment of OVER regulation that led to this plane even existing as it does. Basically Boeing is using a 60s era airplane and constantly trying to update IT because the regulatory framework makes it all but impossible to now introduce a new ‘from the ground up’ plane design. Part of the flaw here is in the design of the plane itself, and the way the engines have to be configured so low.
This post was edited on 3/19/19 at 8:55 am
Posted on 3/19/19 at 8:55 am to GeorgePaton
The pilot only had 200 hours of flight time. That’s insanely low. The planes engines are “too powerful” forcing the plane to climb too rapidly. The plane senses a stall since it’s climbing too rapidly and forces the nose down. Pilots can’t correct since they are so inexperienced and the plane crashes into the ground at full throttle
Posted on 3/19/19 at 9:02 am to Man4others
I'd advise everyone to avoid flying on non-western airlines if at all possible.
Posted on 3/19/19 at 9:08 am to Man4others
quote:Ridiculous if true. Likely, 200 hours as a pilot, period, or 200 hours as a co-pilot/captain? Which is it?
The pilot only had 200 hours of flight time
Grounding a fleet because backwards third-world airlines don't properly vet and train their pilots is stupid.
Posted on 3/19/19 at 9:11 am to HubbaBubba
The southwest pilots that experienced the nose down thing said they just played with the flaps as they were trained and it fixed the problem.
Basically sounds like a combination of software problem and pilots not properly educated on the new system.
Basically sounds like a combination of software problem and pilots not properly educated on the new system.
Posted on 3/19/19 at 9:11 am to Mr.Perfect
It would be interesting to see Southwest go up against FreeMarket Air.
FMA would get to design, build, certify, regulate and maintain its own fleet with no government interference ever.
Who would fly with whom?
FMA would get to design, build, certify, regulate and maintain its own fleet with no government interference ever.
Who would fly with whom?
Posted on 3/19/19 at 9:17 am to HubbaBubba
quote:Non western airlines send kids by the thousands to flight schools in the US where they get just enough hours to get their commercial ticket and then go back home and are thrown into the right seat of a plane like 737 MAX. They have no other aviation experience other than their initial training and what their airlines provide them when they are hired. They are essentially robots programmed to push the right button at the right time. Flying without the autopilot is frowned upon and probably a fireable offense at some of these airlines. They have no solid experience base to draw upon if something goes wrong.
Ridiculous if true. Likely, 200 hours as a pilot, period, or 200 hours as a co-pilot/captain? Which is it?
There are generations of guys like that in the foriegn airlines and now they are captains. Back in the day these airlines would hire western pilots to be the captains they hire internally for the most part now so both the captain and the FO are underexperienced and undertrained.
Posted on 3/19/19 at 9:25 am to Man4others
quote:
The planes engines are “too powerful” forcing the plane to climb too rapidly.
Okay. So was there any indication in the initial flight test that pointed to this flaw? Pilot inexperience you say? What about the pilots on the first crash? Were they as inexperienced as the pilots in this last crash? It was reported at least one American pilot severly critcized the flight manual for this airplane. Said it was incomplete and confusing. Obviously the FAA approved the flight manual for this airplane.
Lots of questions. But I know one thing Congress better stop this obsessive-compulsive chasing after Donald Trump and start finding some answers regarding the b/s over at the FAA. But then given the obsession with political correctness evident in Washington we may damn well never know where the failure occurred.
This post was edited on 3/19/19 at 9:27 am
Posted on 3/19/19 at 9:26 am to Mr.Perfect
quote:
Free markets are doing a good job of reacting.
To be fair there are a few hundred families that may find that poor consolation.
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