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re: Fergusons famed and reliable "witness 40"--
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:27 pm to uway
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:27 pm to uway
quote:Um, I'm 47 and I can't recall a time in my life where the word thug was not in use. So yeah, you're wrong.
I could be wrong, but I don't think we used the word thug nearly as often before black people started using it as a somewhat positive descriptor.
quote:What stupid non-productive things you do is your business. Just don't expect us to say they're anything other than stupid and non-productive.
Maybe, but nothing else is working, and it doesn't hurt me to try as part of a broader personal initiative.
1
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:29 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
The capital crime part is stupid too. It's a common meme and it's always dumb. When you do stupid shite, sometimes, it results in worse results than some jury would give you. If I start a fight with a bigger guy and he hits me in self defense just right and that punch kills me, my starting the fight wasn't a capital crime but, those things happen. Hell, excessive speeding isn't a capital crime but, if you do it, you might die. You didn't "deserve" to die, but, your actions DID lead to it happening.
The capital crime part is because death came from the arm of the law. Obviously it wouldn't apply if you were speeding and hit a tree
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:29 pm to uway
quote:
The fact is we don't know that Wilson had to kill him. Y'all are acting like you know.
I don't. But there's evidence to suggest that it's reasonable to believe he did have to shoot him. In fact, from the information I've read about this case it's unreasonable to believe Wilson gunned down an innocent victim.
quote:
, and it's a double whammy of more ammunition for guys like Sharpton
I really don't give a frick about Sharpton.
I believe the Garner case and the kid in Cleveland are worthy of questioning and totally understand outrage in those cases. I don't understand the blind faith protesters are putting in the sketchy eyewitness testimony in the Brown case.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:30 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
I don't. But there's evidence to suggest that it's reasonable to believe he did have to shoot him. In fact, from the information I've read about this case it's unreasonable to believe Wilson gunned down an innocent victim
I haven't seen you speak in a way that makes me think you think you know for sure. That's not the case generally.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:31 pm to uway
quote:
I could be wrong, but I don't think we used the word thug nearly as often before black people started using it
The etymology of the word dates back to the early 1800s. It was used to describe a group of people in India who attacked their victims and robbed them. Sounds like it's about black people in the US though. Amirite?
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:34 pm to StrongSafety
quote:
I know of many privileged kids that have done worse but lived to see another day.
No... you don't.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:34 pm to uway
quote:Alas, what you are doing now is using your ignorance to believe something ignorant.
I could be wrong, but I don't think we used the word thug nearly as often before black people started using it as a somewhat positive descriptor.
"Thug" is literally hundreds of years old and was absolutely common when talking about "Mafia thugs". shite, "thug" was used more commonly for white people than blacks!!!
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:36 pm to uway
quote:Um. Fail.
The capital crime part is because death came from the arm of the law. Obviously it wouldn't apply if you were speeding and hit a tree
If you are robbing a store with a gun it's not a capital crime but, if the cop shows and you won't stop pointing it at people you're gonna end up dead.
STILL wasn't a "capital crime".
Try again.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:36 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
I believe the Garner case
Certainly overpolicing - still no evidence of racial animus, IMHO. Policy brought them all together and a huge combination of things led to his death, both within his control, within the police's control and immutable factors, unrelated to race.
quote:
kid in Cleveland
Tamir Rice - again both overpolicing and horribly incompetent policing are your main factors here. Race may have been a general factor, but it was obviously a kid. However, there isn't a suggestion he was just randomly "gunned down" by the cops, either. There was a citizen complaint then everything went to hell in a handbasket in that case.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:37 pm to uway
quote:
I don't. But there's evidence to suggest that it's reasonable to believe he did have to shoot him. In fact, from the information I've read about this case it's unreasonable to believe Wilson gunned down an innocent victim
I haven't seen you speak in a way that makes me think you think you know for sure. That's not the case generally.
Again, you have the justice system backwards. The burden is on the state.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:37 pm to uway
quote:
But being stupid is not necessarily a capital crime.
Darwin disagrees.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:39 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
quote:
I believe the Garner case
Certainly overpolicing - still no evidence of racial animus, IMHO. Policy brought them all together and a huge combination of things led to his death, both within his control, within the police's control and immutable factors, unrelated to race.
quote:
kid in Cleveland
Tamir Rice - again both overpolicing and horribly incompetent policing are your main factors here. Race may have been a general factor, but it was obviously a kid. However, there isn't a suggestion he was just randomly "gunned down" by the cops, either. There was a citizen complaint then everything went to hell in a handbasket in that case.
Sadly, the angle of protest has been racial, when it should be focused on the errors or perceived errors by the local PD. The Rice case, I do believe may have had a racial component.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:40 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
In this case, however, the objective evidence tends to favor Wilson's story - not 100%, but it was combat - nobody is 100% accurate on anything - so we have to go with what we have.
What we have is - violent criminal steals items, violently. Violent criminal attacks and attempts to disarm cop. Violent criminal, despite being shot at least once, does not surrender to the police when so ordered. Violent criminal then makes the last mistake of his life and rushes the police officer.
That's what a combination of the forensics, other objective evidence and eyewitness statements support. You can dismiss the testimony of the criminal accomplice and anyone who said Brown was shot in the back.
From there, it is relatively irrelevant details - at least as far as a criminal act on the part of the officer. He fired the weapon until the threat was stopped. You said you don't believe it was in cold blood - so you must believe the cop was scared and actually believed Brown could harm him.
Doesn't that make the shooting reasonable?
It's examining the evidence then giving the evidence the proper weight it deserves.
When done in this case, the only logical and rational decision a reasonable person can make is the same decision the GJ made which is that they believed Wilson's version of what happened beyond a reasonable doubt.
Anyone who comes to a different decision than the GJ's decision is not giving the evidence the proper weight it deserves and is basing their decision on an unreasonable doubt.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:40 pm to uway
quote:
I haven't seen you speak in a way that makes me think you think you know for sure. That's not the case generally.
I don't know, and I try my best to view each of these incidents independent of one another and objectively. It's difficult to do with so much bias prevalent on both sides.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:44 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Um. Fail.
If you are robbing a store with a gun it's not a capital crime but, if the cop shows and you won't stop pointing it at people you're gonna end up dead.
STILL wasn't a "capital crime".
Try again.
I realize that it's not a "capital crime" every time a police officer is forced to shoot someone to defend himself or others.
IF Wilson shot Brown unnecessarily for being stupid enough not to get on the ground and surrender even if it was clear that Brown was no longer a threat (a huge IF, I agree), then the "capital crime" meme would apply.
Because what's a capital crime? It's a crime for which the punishment is death, even if you're no longer threatening anyone.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:47 pm to StrongSafety
Can someone give me cliff notes of what the article says? That is one horrible written piece of shite...
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:49 pm to uway
quote:
I haven't seen you speak in a way that makes me think you think you know for sure.
He doesn't have to know "for sure".
After examining all of the evidence and giving it the proper weight it deserves, he just has to know beyond a reasonable doubt
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:51 pm to the808bass
quote:
he etymology of the word dates back to the early 1800s
Thanks for that. I thought for sure that Tupac invented it in the 90s. Well, the more you know.
I'm talking about how we use the word now in the 21st century. My experience is that as kids we knew what the word meant, but it was not used very much until rappers started using it.
And HOLY CRAP, y'all are living in bizarro world if you don't realize that lots of black people now see it as racist and don't think that lots of white people think "thug" when they see a black teenager with his pants around his knees and gold teeth, even if he's committed no crime. Seriously, no wonder race relations are getting worse. Y'all have your hands over your eyes.
This post was edited on 12/19/14 at 12:53 pm
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:59 pm to uway
quote:
don't realize that lots of black people now see it as racist and don't think that lots of white people think "thug" when they see a black teenager with his pants around his knees and gold teeth, even if he's committed no crime.
Are you saying that people do not think thug whenever they see any black teen, but rather those that fit the description you provided?
If so, then my question is whether or not that is a racist view at all. If it were racist, would it not apply to all black teens and not just those that presented themselves in certain way?
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:59 pm to uway
quote:
HOLY CRAP, y'all are living in bizarro world if you don't realize that lots of black people now see it as racist and don't think that lots of white people think "thug" when they see a black teenager with his pants around his knees and gold teeth, even if he's committed no crime. Seriously, no wonder race relations are getting worse. Y'all have your hands over your eyes.
I avoid the word thug as a descriptor of black males because they think it's racist. But it's still stupid. It's been my experience that the same blacks who think that's racist have no problem using the word cracker. So their view of language isn't morally based or logically based. It's just based on what they can get away with. So it's a power thing.
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