re: FDR, Pearl Harbor, The “Great Man” Myth And The True Historical Record…

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Posted on 12/13/25 at 5:06 pm to Toomer Deplorable

So you admit that saying US Military installations were not forewarned about imminent Japanese attacks across the Pacific would be a very easy to defeat argument just by utilizing historical records.

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Posted by Toomer Deplorable on 12/13/25 at 5:35 pm to Narax
You certainly don’t. You are arguing about things I never said. That is the definition of a straw man argument you blithering nitwit.

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hmm

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Posted by Toomer Deplorable on 12/12/25 at 5:32 pm to Narax
Nevertheless, the Roosevelt Administration did not share the full extent of this threat with their military commanders. Roosevelt further assured the American people that good faith diplomatic negotiations with Japan were still in progress when in fact they knew that the Japan was on the brink of an attack.

Roosevelt could have alerted Congress to the deteriorating state of the negotiations with Japan without revealing the origin of that intelligence since the true worth of intelligence is determined solely by its utility. When policy makers refrain from action out of fear of compromising an ostensibly valuable source, the information obtained from that source is rendered effectively useless.

Putting aside the legitimate question about whether the “Winds” intercept suggests an orchestrated and far larger conspiracy by the Roosevelt Administration to cover up their culpability, it was a gross dereliction of duty by the Roosevelt Administration to not inform the military commanders of vulnerable outposts in the Pacific about the increasing evidence that Japan was preparing a major strike against both British and American forces. At the very minimum, key officials in the Roosevelt Administration were guilty of a gross dereliction of duty.

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Well well well,

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Nevertheless, the Roosevelt Administration did not share the full extent of this threat with their military commanders. Roosevelt further assured the American people that good faith diplomatic negotiations with Japan were still in progress when in fact they knew that the Japan was on the brink of an attack.

Putting aside the legitimate question about whether the “Winds” intercept suggests an orchestrated and far larger conspiracy by the Roosevelt Administration to cover up their culpability, it was a gross dereliction of duty by the Roosevelt Administration to not inform the military commanders of vulnerable outposts in the Pacific about the increasing evidence that Japan was preparing a major strike against both British and American forces.

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Holy sh*+. I am dealing with an actual retard.

You just proved my point. Those highlighted remarks don’t contradict each other yet you are too stupid to realize it.

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You just proved my point. Those highlighted remarks don’t contradict each other yet you are too stupid to realize it.

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What your statements contradict are the actual historical facts, that those vulnerable outposts were told about the increasing evidence that Japan was preparing an attack.

You can continue to misdirect as much as you want, but there aint nothing but fake about you, and I think it's good for people to understand your disdain for the truth.

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I would not support a conniving and duplicitous man like FDR

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No, you would support a criminally incompetent coward like MacArthur.

You just haven't really made your case very well, in spite of all the text you provide. While the attack on Pearl Harbor was a surprise in and of itself, entry into the war was obviously inevitable as early as at least 1939 according to my grandfather and the men he trained for combat in the coming war. I'm not talking about books by authors with axes to grind, but by personally talking to the men who were there. They weren't surprised.

FDR is one of the worst presidents in our nation's history, and morons celebrate him like a hero.

Harry Boutten you're looking at the attack with 20/20 hindsight not from the time of the event.

Remember in 1939 the people in the US wanted to stay out of the war in Europe, there is very little thought of a war with Japan in 1939.

I have to remind people all the time how the civil War started, not like they are taught in school.

Move on to new points, the debate is getting into a he said, she said.

I have debate with major authors on Isandlwana, the Little Big Horn, Midway, Peral Harbor etc. and never has it broke down to this circle or he said, she said.

Take time and fine another point or learn much more to the lead up to events and the post events.

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I'm glad we can agree that FDR's actions vis-a-vis Japan were generally reasonable and correct at the time, and not a part of some provocative conspiracy intended to draw the US into war.

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Good Lord.

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FDR is one of the worst presidents in our nation's history, and morons celebrate him like a hero.

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Who said it:

Mussolini or FDR?

“…The State guarantees the internal and external safety of the country, but it also safeguards and transmits the spirit of the people, elaborated down the ages in its language, its customs, its faith. The State educates the citizens to civism, makes them aware of their mission, urges them to unity; its justice harmonizes their divergent interests; it transmits to future generations the conquests of the mind in the fields of science, art, law, human solidarity; it leads men up from primitive tribal life to that highest manifestation of human power.”

FDR or Mussolini?


“…It is wholly wrong to call the measure that we have taken Government control of farming, control of industry, and control of transportation. It is rather a partnership between Government and farming and industry and transportation, not partnership in profits, for the profits would still go to the citizens, but rather a partnership in planning and partnership to see that the plans are carried out.”

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Who said it:

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I have no idea. Both sound like they could be either.

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Nothing in my statements contradict the historical record. The facts revealed in the Joint Committee inquiry demonstrate exactly what I have claimed in the OP.

As Percy Greaves remarked, this may have been a sin of omission rather than commission. However, the fact remains that the Roosevelt Administration did not share the full extent of the intelligence it possessed with military commanders.

That is not a “fringe” conspiracy theory. It is a documented fact.

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FDR certainly did the USA no particular favors in the manner in which he was handling the Pacific Theater at that time, but, I would like to reiterate that the US military high command and its commanders had enough information and warnings to cause them to be much more ready to contend with an attack from the Empire of Japan.

I'm not saying that the US military forces in the Pacific were strong enough to win the war in 1941, or even avoid significant defeat in battle, but, they were very unready to contend with what Japan unleashed in December, 1941, and that is severe and inexcusable negligence.

I would not send them to the Guillotine, though. The fact is that, in 1941, the US military did not have a particularly well-organized, well-educated and well-trained military command system.

Sure, FDR failed. He was a pompous idiot. But he was a CIVILIAN and civilians are frick-ups when it comes to military stuff. The Professional Soldier is the guy whose job it is do the military stuff well and proper. Our military pros dropped the ball.