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re: Excellent article in The Federalist: "We Need to Stop Calling Ourselves Conservatives"
Posted on 10/24/22 at 1:52 pm to Y.A. Tittle
Posted on 10/24/22 at 1:52 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
You mean what they're saying about the tranny shite?
Abortion, trannies...who the frick knows what comes next.
The problem is that once you promote authoritarianism, there isn't a clear ending point/withdrawal. The article even says this.
0
Posted on 10/24/22 at 1:58 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Did you not see the part about expanding criminal laws to punish political opponents?
Like the left is doing at this moment? And has been for several years?
I don’t care much for the premise of the OP but you seem more concerned about potential abuse of power than actual, current abuse of power. I can’t think of a good reason for that outside of your real concern being who’s doing the abusing rather than the abuse. Am I missing something?
Posted on 10/24/22 at 2:01 pm to Flats
quote:
Like the left is doing at this moment?
a. They're not expanding the laws
b. This thread isn't about the Left. It's about the response to the perception of the Left.
quote:
but you seem more concerned about potential abuse of power than actual, current abuse of power.
Then you're not paying attention. I'm anti-authoritarian.
quote:
I can’t think of a good reason for that outside of your real concern being who’s doing the abusing rather than the abuse.
I literally asked people promoting right-authoritarianism to sell me on that over left-authoritarianism in this thread.
4 replies and no actual responses
Posted on 10/24/22 at 2:06 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
a. They're not expanding the laws
Obviously they don’t have to, because they’re wielding some pretty big clubs at the federal and local levels just fine with the current laws. Again, the current abuse doesn’t appear to grind your gears as much as some potential abuse that may not ever occur.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 2:31 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
Why exactly is it time to purge the libertines and fiscal conservatives?
Posted on 10/24/22 at 2:38 pm to Eurocat
quote:
Why exactly is it time to purge the libertines
It’s past time. They’re a pox on civilization.
quote:
and fiscal conservatives?
Don’t know about the op but I sure as hell don’t want them purged, although I don’t know who that describes at the national level. It’d be a great thing if enough of them existed to even consider a purge.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 2:45 pm to Flats
quote:
Again, the current abuse doesn’t appear to grind your gears as much
It depends on the "abuse".
Government overreach always grinds my gears.
This board has not traditionally given a shite about improper police behavior, but now they do? In only select examples? While promoting an article saying they need to add more police power to society? The confusion towards the current the concept of police power shouldn't be directed towards me, friend.
If you don't see what happened to Trump and say "shite we need fewer laws and we need to strip government of power", then I can't help you. If you're now saying government needs even more police power? That's getting borderline insane.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 2:50 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
If you're now saying government needs even more police power? That's getting borderline insane.
I’ve never said that in my life. Insert the Jordan Peterson “so you’re saying” meme.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 2:53 pm to Flats
quote:
I’ve never said that in my life.
That was a general "you" not "you = Flats"
Posted on 10/24/22 at 3:01 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That was a general "you" not "you = Flats"
Gotcha. I’m not against using existing hammers the same way they do, mainly because it’s the only way to get them repealed. If you continually bring a knife to a gunfight you’ll continually get shot. Bring a gun and the other guy might start thinking about de-escalation. But that’s NOT the same thing as adding powers so your gun is even bigger. Under no circumstances should we be granting the federal government more power or money; I don’t care what it’s for.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 3:49 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Right.
Here's a political compass meme that I hope explains it.
Just saw I'd mistyped reference to a linear scale as '2D' btw. Seems to have been overlooked, but may have been confusing.
When folks refer to left vs right linear political scales though, "fascism," or "right-authoritarian," or whatever we are calling it here, is often welded to the right-most fringe. The assignment just doesn't fit. It's akin to sewing a leg to a shoulder socket. Anyway you try to explain it, the result is whacked.
Even in 2D measures, fascism falls, at best, halfway down the x-axis (economic), while obviously at a y-axis (authoritarian) extremity.
Unless one places anarcho-libertarians dead center on a one-dimensional linear scale, there is literally no way for authoritarianism to rationally find its way right of center.
The Fascist=FarRight BS got started with a post-WWII confluence of lib historians, sociologists, and poli-sci's realizing leftists had a load of bad kimchi on their side of the line. So they forced National Socialists as a square peg in a round hole to the far right.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 4:00 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Even in 2D measures, fascism falls, at best, halfway down the x-axis (economic), while obviously at a y-axis (authoritarian) extremity.
Uh, right-authoritarianism involves a lot of government influence/control over the economy.
Again, look at the article:
quote:
The fusionism of past decades, in which conservatives made common cause with market-obsessed libertarians and foreign policy neocons, is finished.
quote:
Some, such as Sohrab Ahmari, Gladden Pappin, and Adrian Vermeule (along with a larger cohort of conservative Catholic thinkers), advocate a conservatism that is comfortable with big government and in fact sees it as necessary not only for the common good but to tame what Ahmari recently called the “private tyranny” of woke corporations empowered by unrestrained market forces.
quote:
Conservatives need not shy away from making these arguments because they betray some cherished libertarian fantasy about free markets and small government. It is time to clear our minds of cant.
You're not going to have free markets and social control. It's going to be control everywhere for the leadership's desires.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 4:04 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:"a lot of government influence/control" or even total government influence/control.
Uh, right-authoritarianism involves a lot of government influence/control over the economy.
How then, does that move the ordinate rightward?
Posted on 10/24/22 at 4:15 pm to Piney Flats
So much gnashing of teeth over the article "calling for fascism".
"Right wing authoritarianism" predates fascism.
"Right wing authoritarianism" predates fascism.
This post was edited on 10/24/22 at 4:16 pm
Posted on 10/24/22 at 4:21 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
How then, does that move the ordinate rightward?
Well they're promoting a system more akin to Saudi Arabia/Iran than Italy in the 30s.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 4:29 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Yes. Theocracy is an abscissa mover. But if anything it moves the ordinate left. Correct? It certainly isn't moving toward free markets. Authoritarianism, whether theocratic or fascist, does not move right economically relative to capitalism .... ever.
Well they're promoting a system more akin to Saudi Arabia/Iran than Italy in the 30s.
This post was edited on 10/24/22 at 4:31 pm
Posted on 10/24/22 at 4:33 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
woke corporations empowered by unrestrained market forces.
The rise of woke corporations isn't due to unrestrained market forces , it's due to unrestrained non-market forces
This post was edited on 10/24/22 at 5:33 pm
Posted on 10/24/22 at 4:38 pm to NC_Tigah
I get what you're saying. There are better compasses but the other ones don't have memes.
FTR, I see it as linear. Government either has more power over me or less power over me. I'm more of a horse shoe kind of guy.
FTR, I see it as linear. Government either has more power over me or less power over me. I'm more of a horse shoe kind of guy.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 4:41 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:I guess I'm just asking how one creates a left-right linear scale with Fascists on the right and Marxists on the left without ending up with nonsense like this:
Well they're promoting a system more akin to Saudi Arabia/Iran than Italy in the 30s.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 4:42 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Well they're promoting a system more akin to Saudi Arabia/Iran than Italy in the 30s.
Who is?
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