re: Elon Musk says we're probably living in a simulation

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If you use the same reasoning, how would a god create itself?

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A force capable of making time and space itself is capable of being outside time. It logically follows even if we don't understand the mechanics of such a thing. It's kind of like us asking an ant what is the square root of 49... we know enough about our universe to understand that it is incredible vast and minutely complex.

What isn't logical is that the universe is infinitely old. The universe is expanding... if it's expanding it had a start. Most scientists put that number at about 14 billion years ago based on what we can measure.

Also your argument that we just haven't discovered enough to disprove an original cause to the universe is putting a lot of faith in something you do not see or know.

The case for the origin of the universe is only more convincing today that it was before the time of Darwinism, relativity and all of our modern scientific advancements... so your argument doesn't hold water on that count.

"If a civilization stops advancing then that may be due to some calamitous event that erases civilization," Musk said, presenting two options. "Either we're going to create simulations that are indistinguishable from reality, or civilization will cease to exist."

Hard to say he is wrong.. phrase it like this:

"we’ll end up using technology for pleasure and we don't even care about simulating ancestors, we’ll end up killing ourselves, or we’re living in a simulation"

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A force capable of making time and space itself is capable of being outside time.

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But you're making the same argument and simply glossing over it.

Who's to say the Universe hasn't existed forever? You keep claiming that it's expanding and thus must have had an an origin or creator. But nothing requires that. What if time and matter had been bound together in a tiny point ad infinitum? Adding god to the equation makes the origin of the universe more complex and unlikely, not less.

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A force capable of making time and space itself is capable of being outside time.

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None of this is proveable. It would be better if you said it requires blind faith. I’m fine with that. It’s when you act like you can prove god’s existence or disprove his absence.

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What isn't logical is that the universe is infinitely old. The universe is expanding... if it's expanding it had a start.

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This also isn’t true or proveable. We simply don’t know what happened before the Big Bang. Just that all matter was arranged in a very small space. That doesn’t mean that all matter had to be created at that time.

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putting a lot of faith in something you do not see or know.

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I don’t have a belief other than that you have yet to prove anything. You are the one putting faith in your beliefs

I appreciate the civil (no pun intended) discussion, but it seems you have based most of your beliefs on a few false premises....

1. The universe is expanding THEREFORE everything must have been created at the Big Bang

2. “A force capable of making time and space itself is capable of being outside time. It logically follows even if we don't understand the mechanics of such a thing.“

Just to name a few

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a simulation

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A simulation goes beyond just sight and sound, youd have to get touch and taste in as well. Is there even a working prototype of a mouth insert that both mimics the taste and texture of food, that's swallowable to boot?

I think technology can get us close for entertainment values, but something that is indistinguishable from our own reality? Not even close. It's possible, but it's not on the horizon.

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A simulation goes beyond just sight and sound, youd have to get touch and taste in as well. Is there even a working prototype of a mouth insert that both mimics the taste and texture of food, that's swallowable to boot?

I think technology can get us close for entertainment values, but something that is indistinguishable from our own reality? Not even close. It's possible, but it's not on the horizon.

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It doesn't really have to do everything though. Certain senses and/or abilities wouldn't necessarily be important to simulated beings developing a highly advanced simulation.

Plue, it could be a simulation of a single individual.. the scale shouldn't matter.

As it turns out, this world-beyond-this-world idea also isn’t new. For thousands of years, theologians, religious priests, and philosophers have asserted that our immediate, visible, and experienced reality is not “all there is.” Whether one turns to the ancient Egyptians, Greek philosophers, Indian Brahmins, or medieval scholastics, the universe is always depicted as multi-dimensional in one way or another.


Why, then, are we here? Who is the “architect” or “programmer,” and does this entity or person or whatever communicate with those inside the simulation? Has the Maker been revealed so that we might gain knowledge? And is there the possibility of a “new simulation” after this one in which we might take part? As you can already tell, these questions are the bread and butter of classic divinity. If only those outside the believing community might see this.


“anyone who has seen me has seen the Father,” John 14:9

I’ve been listening over a few runs.

Been fascinating. Elon is full of shite on over 50% of his discussion but it is some interesting stuff to think about.

You could tell Joe was destroyed when he explained the science behind why we can’t have flying cars and magnetic superhighways.

While I may not agree with him on much I appreciate him going on there and putting it all out there. It was a great listen. Joe’s Podcast with ND Tyson was great too.