re: Does the Holy Land belong to The Church?

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If you aren't Orthodox or Catholic then you are a Protestant and, therefore, not really a Christian.

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I would say i am closer to what Our Lord would have considered a true follower of Christ than what goes on in the Catholic Church. And I’m not saying I am anywhere near perfect in my walk with Christ, nor do I deny there are Catholics that are very devout and go to heaven. But how am I not a true Christian is puzzling to me? Why would you say that?

Yeehaw! At this rate all the arguments on planet earth should be made by November 1. Waiting patiently for the aliens to weigh in.

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Orthodox that attended Catholic Schools for 12 years. I'm thinking all should be burned or actively purged for "wrong" theological thinking.....and the Muslims, don't even get me started.....especially as it applies to the Turks. Burning is too good for them.

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You set a great Christian example. It’s clear you’ve listened to and adhere to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

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I go by the simple text of what the scripture says and don’t adhere to any one particular man’s theological thinking.

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About half my family is Catholic. My parents raised me in a Missionary Baptist Church. After getting married and having kids we went to a Southern Baptist Church.

In my view, they are all flawed because the different denominations are creations of man, which is flawed by nature.

I am in agreement with Revelator that more emphasis should be placed on the Bible itself and it’s teachings more so than man made ceremonies.

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I am in agreement with Revelator that more emphasis should be placed on the Bible itself and it’s teachings more so than man made ceremonies.

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John 21:25 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition 25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

According to Catholic Answers Magazine, Jesus did not command the apostles to write down everything he had taught them. Instead, he commanded them to teach it. Much of this teaching later made its way into Sacred Scripture, but every bit of it was and still is considered Sacred Tradition.

Therefore so called man made ceromonies are acutally teachings that jesus gave to his apostles and carried on by the church as sacred tradition.

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According to Catholic Answers Magazine, Jesus did not command the apostles to write down everything he had taught them. Instead, he commanded them to teach it. Much of this teaching later made its way into Sacred Scripture, but every bit of it was and still is considered Sacred Tradition. Therefore so called man made ceromonies are acutally teachings that jesus gave to his apostles and carried on by the church as sacred tradition.

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That’s a very convenient way to incorporate any teaching you want into the church isn’t it? This is how we get such blasphemous teachings like;
Mary was sinless, Mary ascended into heaven, Mary is a co-medeatrix with Jesus, etc.

I don’t see anything in the passage saying because it wasn’t written down we must still take it as gospel if the RCC deems it so.
I for one believe that God could preserve exactly what he wanted us to know within the pages of scripture.

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Catholicism isn't "The Church".

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Exactly. This entire false premise that the RCC is the one and only true church and arbiter of all truth is based on the erroneous idea that Peter was somehow the first Pope.
The RCC wasn’t officially a church till hundreds of years after the disciples went out to spread the gospel. Tons of churches sprang up from here and multitudes of people who became born again in these churches lived and died never knowing about the RCC and certainly without being under their authority.
There is no scripture in the Bible where any of the disciples are portrayed as having to seek Peter for spiritual instructions before preaching or teaching. And there aren’t any verses where Peter himself claimed any special authority or position. Peter called himself a fellow elder and calls Paul a beloved brother.

Ephesians 9: 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,
21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord.


Jesus himself is the rock on which the church was built and who the gates of hell will not prevail. Not Peter.

Again, the RCC is built on the false premise that Peter was the first Pope
and the rock on which the church was founded. Neither is true. If Peter was indeed the first pope, he didn’t know it, nor did he ever claim to be.
If all of the teachings of the apostles which didn’t end up in the bible were so important as to later make up the church doctrine, why didn’t the RCC that chose what to put in it, include it?
Again, the things that God wanted in the Bible and were Inspired are included in the Bible.

Peter never refers to himself as a leader of the disciples and as I wrote earlier, he refers to himself as a fellow elder. He didn’t even call himself the chief elder.
As for Peter being the rock, the Bible is replete with verses calling God or Jesus the rock.
Lastly, in the same verse where Jesus supposedly refers to Peter as the rock ( Petra) he calls Peter Satan.
I noticed your list of verses didn’t include that. ( fyi, this persons interpretation of scripture infers many things not written)
Listen, Peter was a great disciple and part of Jesus’ inner circle, but the Catholic Church bestows on him titles he never claimed for himself.
They do the same with Mary to a greater degree.

As a good leader Peter never bestows upon himself any accolades, but Jesus did.

So according to you the Catholic Church has it all wrong.

So lets see, Jesus came to earth as the son of God to establish his church on earth through the 12 apostles whom he gave authority to and to their disciples whom they would teach and train to take over after them. Jesus also said that the gates of hell would never prevail against his church.

The Apostles went to the far corners of the earth not able to communicate with each other for years at a time and established churches that are remarkably the same in russia , china, india ireland, europe and africa. they did this with the guidance of the holy spirit. Try whispering a sentence in someones ear and in turn they tell the next person, by the time it goes around 10 times the story is much different. Only the holy spirit could have kept all those churches being established the same. That church my friend is the Catholic Church which has existed since the time of jesus and has lasted till this day because he promised hell would not prevail.

1500 years later some catholic priest named Martin Luther didnt like the way the church authority was handling things and protested.

So to justify the protestant belief about the catholic church, you have to believe that Jesus waited 1500 years to start his church. Of course the bible mentions Martin Luther how many times?

Ask yourself is God a God of order or chaos?
Did Jesus want his church to be of one mind and beliefs?(Catholic=Universal, Greek)
Did Jesus leave the Apostles in charge with authority?
If so then who took over after the apostles died?
The Catholic church can give you the line of authority that followed the apostles up to today. Can You?
The Catholic Church also canonized the bible. the book you base your faith on. Do you think the Catholic church would put together a book that disagreed with their teachings?