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Does social distancing even do anything?

Posted on 5/19/20 at 10:34 am
Posted by cokebottleag
I’m a Santos Republican
Member since Aug 2011
24080 posts
Posted on 5/19/20 at 10:34 am
To preface this, I am not particularly harmed at the moment by the lockdowns; I was working from home back in the fall. What I am concerned with is people on both sides citing 'science' for their claims. One of the foundations for the lockdowns is the benefit of social distancing to slow the spread.

Sounds intuitive, right? If we stay away from each other, we won't spread the virus. Unfortunately, medical history is chock full of ideas and treatments which at first seem intuitive, but later are revealed to be either pointless, or detrimental.

First, the NIH on social distancing:

LINK

quote:

what we need most right now to slow the stealthy spread of this new coronavirus is a full implementation of social distancing. What exactly does social distancing mean? Well, for starters, it is recommended that people stay at home as much as possible, going out only for critical needs like groceries and medicines, or to exercise and enjoy the outdoors in wide open spaces. Other recommendations include avoiding gatherings of more than 10 people, no handshakes, regular handwashing, and, when encountering someone outside of your immediate household, trying to remain at least 6 feet apart.

These may sound like extreme measures. But the new study by NIH-funded researchers, published in the journal Science, documents why social distancing may be our best hope to slow the spread of COVID-19 [1].


Ah hah! So there is clear evidence that social distancing works. The experts say it right there. They even cite a study!

Let's continue:

quote:

Here are a few highlights of the paper, which looks back to January 2020 and mathematically models the spread of the coronavirus within China:

• For every confirmed case of COVID-19, there are likely another five to 10 people with undetected infections.
• Although they are thought to be only about half as infectious as individuals with confirmed COVID-19, individuals with undetected infections were so prevalent in China that they apparently were the infection source for 86 percent of confirmed cases.
• After China established travel restrictions and social distancing, the spread of COVID-19 slowed considerably.

...As these new findings clearly demonstrate, each of us must take social distancing seriously in our daily lives. Social distancing helped blunt the pandemic in China, and it will work in other nations...


Wow, sounds conclusive. Should we bother to go and look at the study ourselves?

The study they cite

Hmmm, first paragraph after the abstract, which doesn't say anything about social distancing:

quote:

The novel coronavirus that emerged in Wuhan, China (SARS-CoV2) at the end of 2019 quickly spread to all Chinese provinces and, as of 1 March 2020, to 58 other countries (1, 2). Efforts to contain the virus are ongoing; however, given the many uncertainties regarding pathogen transmissibility and virulence, the effectiveness of these efforts is unknown.


Weird, its almost like the NIH took a study and projected their own opinion on it. Reading through a quick googling, its apparent that every study which looks at social distancing is at pains to point out that they have no conclusive evidence. One of the main problems: lack of any reliable control groups. Control groups are a central tenet of modern scientific studies. Without them, you are unable to know if something had any actual effect.

Here's one for the flu from a few years ago.

quote:

Fifteen studies, representing 12 modeling and three epidemiological, met the eligibility criteria. The epidemiological studies showed that social distancing was associated with a reduction in influenza-like illness and seroconversion to 2009 influenza A (H1N1). However, the overall risk of bias in the epidemiological studies was serious.


What do they mean by that? That if the modelers wanted to show social distancing was effective, they could, and there was no control to measure against that was reliable.

Posted by NIH
Member since Aug 2008
120126 posts
Posted on 5/19/20 at 10:34 am to
We’re going to look back in a year or so and realize how insane this all was
Posted by Saint Alfonzo
Member since Jan 2019
28400 posts
Posted on 5/19/20 at 10:34 am to
quote:

Does social distancing even do anything?


Other than alienate us from other people? No.
Posted by teke184
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
103153 posts
Posted on 5/19/20 at 10:38 am to
That covers most years in general.

People look back at 70s fashions and cringe, trying to remember what drugs they were on to think having 90ft of bell bottoms was a great idea.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
45842 posts
Posted on 5/19/20 at 10:40 am to
Apparently social distancing wrecks our economy, so there's that.
Posted by Tiger in Texas
Houston, Texas
Member since Sep 2004
22019 posts
Posted on 5/19/20 at 10:42 am to
quote:

We’re going to look back in a year or so and realize how insane this all was



I already feel that way! But my biggest concern is how this was all a litmus test for the left to see how quickly they can create a panic as a way to take power at such an incredible rate we have never seen before in this country- that is scary!!
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
138911 posts
Posted on 5/19/20 at 10:43 am to
quote:

Weird, its almost like the NIH took a study and projected their own opinion on it. Reading through a quick googling, its apparent that every study which looks at social distancing is at pains to point out that they have no conclusive evidence. One of the main problems: lack of any reliable control groups. Control groups are a central tenet of modern scientific studies. Without them, you are unable to know if something had any actual effect.



Apparently Sweden is a good control group. They did not lock-down, albeit they increased their aseptic technique as a society, and Sweden's cases as a percentage of population is 0.301%.

Whereas the U.S.'s cases as a percentage of population is 0.473%.

This is significant IMO.

ETA: I would hypothesize the driving factor behind higher U.S. numbers is the fact that as a nation we have very high rates of diseases under the broad category of metabolic syndrome. In other words, the U.S. is full of fat fricks.
This post was edited on 5/19/20 at 10:47 am
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
125553 posts
Posted on 5/19/20 at 10:44 am to
Social distancing doesn’t do much.

Quarantine of those exposed and infected does.

The end.
Posted by BayBengal9
Bay St. Louis, MS
Member since Nov 2019
4171 posts
Posted on 5/19/20 at 10:44 am to
Social distancing is one of the dumbest fricking things I've ever heard as it relates to immunology and virology.

1) How often do you get within 6' of someone in public in your every day life anyway? For me, not often at all... I respect people's space and I don't like people crowding around on top of me anyway.

2) We have NO CLUE how much viral particulate matter escapes in a given volume of mucus, spit, etc. AND it varies from virus to virus (and probably person to person for the same virus), plus there is no way to know how long it hangs around or not once it is in the air.

Every breath you take you are INHALING DEAD SKIN FROM WHO KNOWS WHERE.

The whole thing is absurd and insane.
Posted by DeltaDoc
The Delta
Member since Jan 2008
16474 posts
Posted on 5/19/20 at 10:45 am to
It certainly makes us more susceptible to other viruses and ailments. All of our immune systems have been damaged by not being in the dirty world.
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
62011 posts
Posted on 5/19/20 at 10:45 am to
quote:

Does social distancing even do anything?


There was a guy on Tucker last night, I don’t remember his name, but he said the numbers from around the world show that lock downs and social distancing have no effect on how the virus behaves. Said it runs its natural course no matter what action is taken.
Posted by teke184
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
103153 posts
Posted on 5/19/20 at 10:45 am to
What does Sweden’s population have with regards to underlying health issues?

I don’t think their welfare “immigrants” are obese with hypertension and other co-morbidities.
Posted by Seldom Seen
Member since Feb 2016
48737 posts
Posted on 5/19/20 at 10:46 am to
quote:

Does social distancing even do anything?




It does wonders for taking down an economy.
Posted by dhuck20
SCLSU Fan
Member since Oct 2012
23012 posts
Posted on 5/19/20 at 10:46 am to
Social distancing seems to be an equivalent of hiding from the boogeyman instead of fighting it (herd immunity)
Posted by cokebottleag
I’m a Santos Republican
Member since Aug 2011
24080 posts
Posted on 5/19/20 at 10:47 am to
quote:

Apparently Sweden is a good control group. They did not lock-down, albeit they increased their aseptic technique as a society, and Sweden's cases as a percentage of population is 0.301%.

Whereas the U.S.'s cases as a percentage of population is 0.473%.


Maybe. But you'd have to control for:
- Urban to rural ratios
- Racial ratios
- Income levels
- Climate differences
- Elder care practices

and others.

So comparing Sweden's numbers to ours at face value, 1 to 1, is still extremely flawed. Certainly not close enough an equivalence to say with confidence what caused the difference of 0.172%. Especially since we have such a WIDE range of estimations for number of 'secret' infected.
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
138911 posts
Posted on 5/19/20 at 10:49 am to
quote:

Social distancing doesn’t do much.

Quarantine of those exposed and infected does.



I agree with this. The vulnerable should self isolate too.

It's the traditional way of doing medicine. The novel virus did not require a novel approach to medicine.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
94811 posts
Posted on 5/19/20 at 10:50 am to
Hand washing and not touching your face is 99.9999999% of the effective measures.

The lockdowns, quarantining healthy/non-vulnerable people is the most expensive overreaction in human history.
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
138911 posts
Posted on 5/19/20 at 10:50 am to
quote:

What does Sweden’s population have with regards to underlying health issues?


I thought of that once I hit the submit button. I edited my post to reflect that point.

quote:

I don’t think their welfare “immigrants” are obese with hypertension and other co-morbidities.




Exactly.
Posted by cokebottleag
I’m a Santos Republican
Member since Aug 2011
24080 posts
Posted on 5/19/20 at 10:54 am to
quote:

Social distancing doesn’t do much.



That's the other end of my assertion here. You don't know that either.
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
138911 posts
Posted on 5/19/20 at 10:54 am to
quote:

So comparing Sweden's numbers to ours at face value, 1 to 1, is still extremely flawed. Certainly not close enough an equivalence to say with confidence what caused the difference of 0.172%. Especially since we have such a WIDE range of estimations for number of 'secret' infected.



You are correct however Sweden's numbers are still better than ours and their measures were not as extreme as others. It probably has more to do with the health of each countries' general population to explain the difference.
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