re: Do liberals realize that the spying on political opponents won't stop at Trump?

Oh, they have a moral code alright. It just doesn't apply to THEM.

Granted, many on the right are the same, but the difference from my Independent viewpoint is that it's basically a right of passage to be a member of the left. Subjectivism and all that, I suppose.

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You are taking the position that what the memo describe is ok if true?

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It depends.

As I heard it put yesterday: If I'm cooking meth in my kitchen and my neighbor calls the cops on me, I don't get to say "but my neighbor hates me because I cook meth".

The key would be the veracity of the information in the dossier: some of which has been confirmed. And some has not. To my knowledge, none has been discredited.

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a. What wrongdoing? The memo didn't even make the case for wrongdoing. 

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So you're ok with a secret, one-sided court that approves 99.8% of wiretap applications being used to spy on an opposition party's campaign member who had no criminal record and, despite previous investigation by the world's largest law enforcement agency, was never charged with a crime? Why are you so afraid of the Russians when your authoritarian arse thinks and acts just like them?

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It depends.

As I heard it put yesterday: If I'm cooking meth in my kitchen and my neighbor calls the cops on me, I don't get to say "but my neighbor hates me because I cook meth".

The key would be the veracity of the information in the dossier: some of which has been confirmed. And some has not. To my knowledge, none has been discredited

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It saddens me that the left doesn't comprehend what they are supporting

Spying based on the word of ones enemies with zero ability to rebut

Hey. Let's just run the whole justice system that way. "You're convicted because the veracity of the prosecution assertions seems solid

I can't decide if you people are evil or just stupid.

You people are farking hopless.

Continue your circle jerk. Have fun.

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There’s nothing in the memo which says any political apparatus spied on a different political apparatus. 

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Do you realize how Orwellian this statement sounds? The Obama Administration's FBI and DOJ went to the FISA court to get a wiretap for a member of the opposition party's campaign. That wiretap was then renewed multiple times. Again, who needs the Russians when people like you are down with mass surveillance and worship the intelligence establishment?

I don’t think it was what was in the memo itself that tells the story, but the reactions of the FBI, DOJ, Democrats, and media that tell the true story. Based on their numerous attempts to discredit the memo by calling it lies, or has ommissions, or is misleading, or a threat to national security, they showed themselves to be involve in enough nefarious acts to make each group worry that many of their indiscretions would come to light.

If I had someone tell me that he witnessed what I did and was going to call the police, I would laugh it off if I had done nothing wrong. But if I had done many bad things and gotten away with them, I would be worried about what that person would report. I think all of these groups are the latter. They all know that they were involved in doing some bad things and it showed in their reactions.

TBoy and Dirk probably think our rights are given to us by the government and we damn sure better be grateful for their generosity and never, ever question them or they might take them away. What a couple of authoritarian shills.

I have been hammered on here for saying this. I’ve been blasted many times. But think about it for a minute.
If the Democrats win a supermajority in the senate and take the house, Trump is gone. They impeach him, remove him from office and put him on trial.
The deep state powers, after watching an outsider come in and almost destroy their click, decide to go for everything now.
There is a series of accidents, deaths and early retirements on scotus. The court is stacked.
It becomes legal to sue firearm manufacturers and they are bankrupted.
Guns become illegal. They pass a law saying you have to get approved by a mental health professional to own a gun. Almost none are approved.
They then start enacting Venezuela type socialism in the US.
The border is opened. The illegals here are ALL given full voting rights.
The republicans are outnumbered and powerless.
One party government.
Civil war against the state by what’s left of conservatives.
Camps
Ovens
Gulags
History repeats
I really believe this will happen in the next 20-30 years.
Once the boomers are gone. The church going people. The old timers.
Once they are gone, classic America is dead.