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Started By
Message
re: Did the Rebecca Lobach scrubbing accomplish anything?
Posted on 2/3/25 at 12:20 pm to llfshoals
Posted on 2/3/25 at 12:20 pm to llfshoals
quote:
having two aircraft on plane (same altitude) in close proximity is a terrible idea and their “pass behind the aircraft” I hear on the recording we can hear is absolutely insane.
Wouldn't ATC telling them to pass behind insinuate that ATC knew the Helo was at the same attitude as the plane and above 200 ft?
1
Posted on 2/3/25 at 12:21 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:Have you watched the vids showing the ATC screen and interaction?
The VFR pilot is most likely 100% at fault.
The ATC gets a conflict alert. He can see the two tracks converging. He asks the copter if they see the plane and they say yes.
Should he have instructed the copter to change course? I think it’s plain he should given you can see these tracks at close altitude are going straight at each other.
He assumed the pilot understood which plane he meant. And a lot of people died because they didn’t.
Posted on 2/3/25 at 12:24 pm to fwtex
quote:If you look at the video the copter shows at 300, the plane at 500 but its descending to land.
Wouldn't ATC telling them to pass behind insinuate that ATC knew the Helo was at the same attitude as the plane and above 200 ft?
I could see pass behind instruction making at least some sense if the two are converging at a substantial angle. They’re going straight at each other.
Posted on 2/3/25 at 1:03 pm to llfshoals
quote:
Should he have instructed the copter to change course?
He did. ATC told them to go behind the jet.
Posted on 2/3/25 at 1:24 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:And the ATC can see they do not change course and continue on a collision course. He can see it, because he asks a second time if they can see the plane.
He did. ATC told them to go behind the jet.
The ATC, and you both assumed he could see the plane.
Have you ever told your wife to do something and she did something else because she thought you meant something else? If you haven’t you’d be the only married man I’ve known that missed out on that fun.
Point being the ATC is the control on the situation. It’s their job to keep the birds out of conflict.
Posted on 2/3/25 at 1:26 pm to llfshoals
quote:
Point being the ATC is the control on the situation. It’s their job to keep the birds out of conflict.
It's the VFP pilot's job to do this. ATC assists as they are responsible for the IFR plane. There is a required trust in this situation due to the close proximity of the helicopter flight paths.
If you want to blame someone besides the VFR pilot, blame the person that approved those helicopter flight paths.
Posted on 2/3/25 at 1:33 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:Oh there’s plenty to go there.
If you want to blame someone besides the VFR pilot, blame the person that approved those helicopter flight paths.
Putting military copters into high traffic commercial airspace is nothing short of insane IMO. Particularly at night where visibility is guaranteed to be an issue.
I get it can be necessary in an emergency, which this wasn’t.
Posted on 2/3/25 at 1:34 pm to LSUGrrrl
quote:
500 hours is not a lot of flight time.
She wasn’t a student pilot, though. That was my point.
As a 20 year Army Aviator I'll like to add my prospective on this accident...
The CPT was not a student but a Rated Aviator on a training mission. Once she graduated from Fort Rucker she was a full fledged pilot.
500 hours for her time in service and her rank was on par with most Army pilots. You would be horrified to learn that there are 100s, if not 1000s, of 500 hour PIC aviators flying missions all across the country. We build our time by flying with more experienced aviators. In this case, she was paired with a 1000 hr Instructor Pilot.
Had I been their commander with a 1000 hr IP and 500 hr pilot, I would have signed that mission brief.
Posted on 2/3/25 at 1:39 pm to Chopper 2
quote:I like to think you may have had a thought or two about the flight going through a high traffic commercial airspace before signing off.
Had I been their commander with a 1000 hr IP and 500 hr pilot, I would have signed that mission brief.
Posted on 2/3/25 at 1:53 pm to llfshoals
quote:
I like to think you may have had a thought or two about the flight going through a high traffic commercial airspace before signing off.
Indeed I would. But, the mission is to support the evacuation of high rating individuals in the event of an emergency. My pilots need to train as they fight and fly day or night. To do that they need to fly those routes day & night.
I am very sympathetic to the tragedy, but higher ups need to change or amend the mission.
As a side note, while not flying PAT, I did fly those DC routes for several years in a different capacity. AND, I'll admit it was also about 30 years ago and I realize things will change.
Posted on 2/3/25 at 2:29 pm to LSUGrrrl
Posted on 2/3/25 at 2:32 pm to LSUGrrrl
locating an organization chart for the pilots would allow focusing on the guilty supervision
Posted on 2/3/25 at 7:14 pm to Chopper 2
quote:
As a 20 year Army Aviator I'll like to add my prospective on this accident...
The CPT was not a student but a Rated Aviator on a training mission. Once she graduated from Fort Rucker she was a full fledged pilot.
500 hours for her time in service and her rank was on par with most Army pilots. You would be horrified to learn that there are 100s, if not 1000s, of 500 hour PIC aviators flying missions all across the country. We build our time by flying with more experienced aviators. In this case, she was paired with a 1000 hr Instructor Pilot.
Had I been their commander with a 1000 hr IP and 500 hr pilot, I would have signed that mission brief.
28 posts since 2007?
Post more.
Posted on 2/4/25 at 9:21 am to Stinger_1066
It’s absolutely blows my mind that there are people defending this bitch like she didn’t just kill 66 people. People are in complete denial of reality that this woman was well connected to the Biden administration and the Democratic Party.
Posted on 2/4/25 at 9:45 am to BuckeyeWarrior
500 hours = knowing just enough to get people killed.
Posted on 2/4/25 at 9:54 am to Goforit
quote:
having 500 hours of flying time is just enough to get the chopper up and down.
Didn't (and still don't) understand how pundits were saying she was an "experienced" pilot with 500 hours of flying time. Seemed like a small amount to me. Most of the aviators I've known had well over a thousand hours of PIC time so maybe I'm biased. They were all older military veterans working in the private sector. But I can say with certainty, they wouldn't have considered 500 hours to be anything impressive or substantial.
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