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re: DeSantis Slammed for Using National Crisis to Criticize Trump: Poor Timing Criticized
Posted on 3/22/23 at 12:11 pm to Pettifogger
Posted on 3/22/23 at 12:11 pm to Pettifogger
You crave the establishment fake diplomacy.
The poll said there is a divide in the R primaries regarding Ukraine. So the neocons are getting unneoconned.
The poll said there is a divide in the R primaries regarding Ukraine. So the neocons are getting unneoconned.
1
Posted on 3/22/23 at 12:29 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Does that not affect Trump?
Of course it does. I am not, and have not tried to suggest otherwise. The point I've made, that you and many others either disagree with or just refuse to acknowledge, is that Desantis needs Trump's base. AND, as a result, hurt himself with his comments.
I think a lot of you guys don't want to even consider that because it gets you angry that he needs Trump's base. I see a lot of whining and yelling about Trump's base being a cult. You've estimated that cult to be 20 fricking percent of his voters. Yet, you don't find that number meaningful.
In other words, your position isn't entirely logic based.
quote:
Quote exactly what DeSantis said that bothers you or that you feel supports your assertion that DeSantis "used leftist tactics to attack Trump."
Forgive me for not quoting him verbatim, but bringing up Stormy Daniels in the middle of a sentence about a Democrat led, politically driven, abuse of power was a problem for me. It made me question whether he recognizes the threat we face overall from a weaponized government standpoint. And, that he chose "Stormy Daniels" to attack him certainly resembled a leftist attack.
Posted on 3/22/23 at 12:42 pm to cajunangelle
quote:
You crave the establishment fake diplomacy.
I'm sure whatever the "establishment fake diplomacy" is is big on theocracy
Posted on 3/22/23 at 12:46 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
The entire GOP political class is corrupted, and DeSantis will have to regularly examine and purge staffers.
So, him getting closer to the entrenched D.C. lifers would be a problem then?
You are describing how he might have become a viable candidate alongside Trump. He needs to run as an outsider who agrees with Trump's "drain the swamp" approach. Then he needs to make the case for why only he could win and why Trump can't.
I'd vote for that guy.
He's not currently running as that guy.
This post was edited on 3/22/23 at 12:48 pm
Posted on 3/22/23 at 12:59 pm to moneyg
I don't think it's fruitful to talk about this stuff with you, because:
- The DeSantis "attacks" you're talking about being a huge mistake involve DeSantis talking about purging personnel that work against the interests of the administration and about how Trump didn't do this well enough. He's not only doing what you're talking about, he's premising his candidacy on the fact that Trump failed to do it.
- Trump is cozying up to neocons and swamp rats and deferred to them frequently in his administration. So you're hitting Ron on this (I think that's your point anyway) but failing to mention it for Trump.
- I don't think you'd vote for DeSantis in any set of circumstances unless Trump blessed it. But I'll admit that's a guess and I don't know your true beliefs.
- The DeSantis "attacks" you're talking about being a huge mistake involve DeSantis talking about purging personnel that work against the interests of the administration and about how Trump didn't do this well enough. He's not only doing what you're talking about, he's premising his candidacy on the fact that Trump failed to do it.
- Trump is cozying up to neocons and swamp rats and deferred to them frequently in his administration. So you're hitting Ron on this (I think that's your point anyway) but failing to mention it for Trump.
- I don't think you'd vote for DeSantis in any set of circumstances unless Trump blessed it. But I'll admit that's a guess and I don't know your true beliefs.
Posted on 3/22/23 at 1:55 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
The DeSantis "attacks" you're talking about being a huge mistake involve DeSantis talking about purging personnel that work against the interests of the administration and about how Trump didn't do this well enough. He's not only doing what you're talking about, he's premising his candidacy on the fact that Trump failed to do it.
That’s a legit criticism. It’s fair. It could explain why a lot of people support Desantis. It doesn’t address his Stormy Daniels comment in the context of Trump being indicted in an obvious political witch hunt.
quote:
Trump is cozying up to neocons and swamp rats and deferred to them frequently in his administration. So you're hitting Ron on this (I think that's your point anyway) but failing to mention it for Trump.
It’s not relevant. I understand that it may make you not want to vote for Trump. I’m not trying to convince you that you are wrong. I’m explaining why what Desantis did was a problem for Trumps base.
quote:
I don't think you'd vote for DeSantis in any set of circumstances unless Trump blessed it. But I'll admit that's a guess and I don't know your true beliefs.
You are wrong. But who cares. I’m but one opinion. You shouldn’t care what I would do. And I certainly don’t care what you think about what I’ll do much less whether you believe me.
None of that is meaningful. The important discussion is about whether Desantis is harming his chances. I only offer my opinion because I believe it’s representative of a lot of voters like myself. Feel free to disagree.
I personally don’t believe any polls. But reading the real leaves I think Desantis and his people do and I think it’s behind his reckless political moves recently. He thinks he’s way behind.
Posted on 3/22/23 at 2:04 pm to moneyg
quote:
It doesn’t address his Stormy Daniels comment in the context of Trump being indicted in an obvious political witch hunt.
The obvious witch hunt, which he spent 95% of his time condemning (more strongly and more persuasively than Trump can do for himself, IMO) is about Stormy Daniels. If the shoe were on the other foot I strongly believe (ie, know for absolute fact) that Trump supporters would talk about how this is just Trump being Trump and all is fair in electoral war or whatever.
You might even agree with that, and instead say "it doesn't matter." It does, to me, as it shows the hypocrisy of your side. But to the extent your point is "ok, we're hypocrites, but you need us" - more on that below.
quote:
I’m explaining why what Desantis did was a problem for Trumps base.
"There is nothing you can do here. We have you boxed in. Anything DeSantis does will probably raise the ire of our people and thus the only real way to avoid this situation is for DeSantis to not run. We have the leverage because if DeSantis defends himself or tries to go on offense we'll threaten to blow it all up. Some of us will vote for him, but you know some of these guys won't. Sucks for ya'll, but that's the reality."
If you'd say the above, we'd be done here I think. Because that's the truth. I don't know if it's as impenetrable as it sounds, you probably think yes, I think maybe not, but I would agree with the landscape.
quote:
But reading the real leaves I think Desantis and his people do and I think it’s behind his reckless political moves recently. He thinks he’s way behind.
I don't think a guy not in the race polling somewhere between 25 and 45 against a former President and arguably the leader of the party is worrying to the DeSantis campaign. I have some pretty solid political connections but none to DeSantis people that I know of. But I would highly suspect that nothing this week (aside from Trump's potential indictment) has changed anything for his camp. I don't think they have any concerns about his statements, as they've known about the above reality for a year and knew this was inevitable.
This post was edited on 3/22/23 at 2:05 pm
Posted on 3/22/23 at 3:13 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
You might even agree with that, and instead say "it doesn't matter." It does, to me, as it shows the hypocrisy of your side.
Who the frick cares. I'm not asking you to not find hypocrisy in "my side". I'm not asking you to agree with "my side". I'm not asking you to acknowledge that "my side's" views are rational.
I'm saying the reality is that Desantis needs those votes.
quote:
"There is nothing you can do here. We have you boxed in. Anything DeSantis does will probably raise the ire of our people and thus the only real way to avoid this situation is for DeSantis to not run. We have the leverage because if DeSantis defends himself or tries to go on offense we'll threaten to blow it all up. Some of us will vote for him, but you know some of these guys won't. Sucks for ya'll, but that's the reality."
I'm not trying to gain power by pointing out that Desantis needs Trump voters. If it makes you feel better, Trump also needs Desantis voters. It's why the ONLY path to victory involved either:
a. One guy not to run
or
b. A very civil campaign. This was always a long shot. Trump wasn't going to play by those rules. And, Desantis destroyed that chance on Monday. Fair or unfair, Desantis hurt himself more than Trump did, IMO.
quote:
But I would highly suspect that nothing this week (aside from Trump's potential indictment) has changed anything for his camp.
I think you have it backwards. This week was all about the polls. He was convinced (giving him credit here) that he had to make a move. It was a bad, bad idea on a bad, bad subject. The ramifications, if any, of that decision haven't yet been quantified in polling. Many are saying he's going to tank. I don't necessarily think that. I think it hurts him in the long run more. If, in fact, it does hurt him in the short run, it's an unmitigated disaster.
Posted on 3/22/23 at 3:20 pm to TigerAttorney
quote:
The deep state controls him
It takes a special kind of stupid to believe that the "deep state" would tell Disney to go frick themselves.
Seriously...you people are so fricking stupid it boggles the mind. Wipe Trump's jizz off your face.
Posted on 3/22/23 at 3:20 pm to moneyg
quote:
The point I've made, that you and many others either disagree with or just refuse to acknowledge, is that Desantis needs Trump's base.
Trump needs my vote a lot more than DeSantis needs yours, assuming the goal is to avoid a repeat of 2020.
quote:
In other words, your position isn't entirely logic based.
I have data that support my position. You have...well Trump's Truths, I guess.
quote:
Forgive me for not quoting him verbatim
No worries.
Now, feel free to do so.
Posted on 3/22/23 at 4:00 pm to FlexDawg
RINO RON 
Posted on 3/22/23 at 4:02 pm to moneyg
quote:
So, him getting closer to the entrenched D.C. lifers would be a problem then?
Depends on which ones.
This wide net being cast eliminates any critical thought but is also inaccurate.
Posted on 3/22/23 at 4:20 pm to moneyg
quote:
He was convinced (giving him credit here) that he had to make a move. It was a bad, bad idea on a bad, bad subject. The ramifications, if any, of that decision haven't yet been quantified in polling. Many are saying he's going to tank. I don't necessarily think that. I think it hurts him in the long run more. If, in fact, it does hurt him in the short run, it's an unmitigated disaster.
Ah yes.
Such objective.
Much concern.
You just want what’s best for Ron
Posted on 3/22/23 at 4:23 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Trump needs my vote a lot more than DeSantis needs yours, assuming the goal is to avoid a repeat of 2020.
I think you are a democrat so I doubt that. But, Trump certainly needs Desantis voters. And, he needs some independents. He's opened some avenues with hispanics. That also will be needed.
quote:
I have data that support my position. You have...well Trump's Truths, I guess.
I missed your data. To what are you referring?
quote:
No worries.
Now, feel free to do so.
I'm not going to do that. Go ahead and post the transcript. I'll then go and tell you what I didn't like. And, if somehow I was wrong about what I think he said (I literally listened to him, so I doubt that's the case).
Posted on 3/22/23 at 4:24 pm to FlexDawg
LOL ... they are definitely scared.
Posted on 3/22/23 at 9:40 pm to Adam Banks
quote:
Ah yes.
Such objective.
Much concern.
You just want what’s best for Ron
My motives are selfish. If he somehow beats Trump, I want him to have a chance to win.
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