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Started By
Message
re: Dems, what policies do you campaign on for 2020?
Posted on 1/11/18 at 7:13 pm to bonhoeffer45
Posted on 1/11/18 at 7:13 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
The tax bill is still not very popular
Once money hits pockets it will be
quote:
sexual harassment issues
Who does Weinstein support
This post was edited on 1/11/18 at 7:17 pm
1
Posted on 1/11/18 at 7:13 pm to Lsuchs
quote:
Once money hits pockets it will be
Did that make you vote Democratic in 2010?
Posted on 1/11/18 at 7:17 pm to bonhoeffer45
Do I have to vote Democrat if if I’m not against one thing they’ve* (ETA) done?
You said tax bill is unpopular. I say it won’t be once people feel it’s affect, some already are
Your MSM is doing its job but they can’t hide the truth for long. Weren’t we just told corporations wouldn’t pass on the savings to employees: bonuses and wage increases all over... Wasnt this a tax cut for the rich, then it was unfair to the rich?
Perception (due to your MSMs fake news):
“A Monmouth University poll found that exactly half the country predicts that the federal taxes they pay will go up under the new law. Just 14 percent say their taxes will go down, and another 25 percent believe they’ll pay the same amount.”
Reality:
“here’s the truth: 8 in 10 Americans will pay lower taxes next year, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center’s analysis of the final bill. Only 5 percent of people will pay more next year. Mostly, those are folks who earn six figures and own expensive houses in places with high local taxes, such as New York and California.”
- Washington Post
Like clockwork, everything they say and you eat up is a straight fricking lie.
You said tax bill is unpopular. I say it won’t be once people feel it’s affect, some already are
Your MSM is doing its job but they can’t hide the truth for long. Weren’t we just told corporations wouldn’t pass on the savings to employees: bonuses and wage increases all over... Wasnt this a tax cut for the rich, then it was unfair to the rich?
Perception (due to your MSMs fake news):
“A Monmouth University poll found that exactly half the country predicts that the federal taxes they pay will go up under the new law. Just 14 percent say their taxes will go down, and another 25 percent believe they’ll pay the same amount.”
Reality:
“here’s the truth: 8 in 10 Americans will pay lower taxes next year, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center’s analysis of the final bill. Only 5 percent of people will pay more next year. Mostly, those are folks who earn six figures and own expensive houses in places with high local taxes, such as New York and California.”
- Washington Post
Like clockwork, everything they say and you eat up is a straight fricking lie.
This post was edited on 1/11/18 at 8:05 pm
Posted on 1/11/18 at 7:19 pm to texag7
There is only one policy for 2020, NOT TRUMP!
Posted on 1/11/18 at 7:22 pm to Lsuchs
quote:
Do I have to vote Democrat if if I’m not against one thing I’ve done?
You said tax bill is unpopular. I say it won’t be once people feel it’s affect, some already are
The stimulus bill remained unpopular with Republicans even after the tax cuts got into their pockets.
quote:
Do I have to vote Democrat if if I’m not against one thing I’ve done?
You might not see it, but this is the point I'm trying to make to you.
Posted on 1/11/18 at 7:25 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
You might not see it, but this is the point I'm trying to make to you.
If you assume the republicans need more votes. Didn’t they just win 30+ states.
You need more votes, not trump. I don’t care if people who voted D vote D again, you better hope people who voted R vote D.
This post was edited on 1/11/18 at 7:29 pm
Posted on 1/11/18 at 7:26 pm to texag7
I'm not a Dem but I'm calling it now. They know the tax cuts and higher wages are going to be a barrier so expect them to promise laws that require more paid vacation or less than 40hr work weeks.
Posted on 1/11/18 at 7:29 pm to Lsuchs
quote:
If you assume the republicans need more votes. Didn’t they just win 30+ states.
You need more votes
I think you are lost or just floundering, what does this have to do with anything we were just discussing?
The tax bill is unpopular, there is no guarantee that once money hits pockets it will suddenly become much more popular. In fact, if you look at a previous tax cut like the stimulus, it declined in popularity amongst the Republicans as time went on and the money showed up in pockets, and slightly dropped with Democrats as well. You even said it yourself, you weren't going to just vote another party because they did one thing you didn't hate.
And the name of the game in hyper-partisan era's is mobilization, and right now Democrats have been pretty damn energized since the election. Might fall off by the end of the year, but not likely.
This post was edited on 1/11/18 at 7:31 pm
Posted on 1/11/18 at 7:29 pm to bonhoeffer45
Yeah, you don't have a clue. The only people who are dumb enough to believe the bill only helps the wealthy either don't pay taxes or would never vote R anyway. The fact that you think government is entitled to more and more of hard earned money disgusts normal people
Posted on 1/11/18 at 7:32 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
I think you are lost or just floundering, what does this have to do with anything we were just discussing?
I said “do I have to vote Democrat now because Im not against something they’ve done?” As in if I received money due to stimulus doesn’t mean I’ll vote D.
You said “that’s my point,” as in Democrats won’t vote republican just because they got some extra cash.
I said republicans just won 30 states, they don’t need people who voted D to switch to R. You need people who voted R to go back D
Keeping up? Or were you trying to prove a different point and I misunderstood
This post was edited on 1/11/18 at 7:35 pm
Posted on 1/11/18 at 7:35 pm to NIH
quote:
Yeah, you don't have a clue. The only people who are dumb enough to believe the bill only helps the wealthy either don't pay taxes or would never vote R anyway. The fact that you think government is entitled to more and more of hard earned money disgusts normal people
I really worry about some of you. Nowhere did I state the bill only affects the wealthy, by any reading it clearly is much more broader in scope than that, but people perceive it to overwhelmingly benefit the wealthy. And in terms of total cost, yeah, the wealthy get the biggest slice of pie, but they aren't the only ones getting a piece. That is where there remains a disconnect between public perception and reality. However, I will point out, perception and reality in politics often do not ever come fully into alignment. People to this day still spout complete nonsense about the ACA that was fed to them in 2009 and 2010. So don't be so sure that voters are going to suddenly do what voters have often shown they aren't capable of doing and attain a perfect understanding of the bill with regards to their perceived self-interest.
Posted on 1/11/18 at 7:38 pm to bonhoeffer45
Why do you hate people keeping their hard earned money?
Posted on 1/11/18 at 7:38 pm to Lsuchs
quote:
I said “do I have to vote Democrat now because Im not against something they’ve done?” As in if I received money due to stimulus doesn’t mean I’ll vote D.
You said “that’s my point,” as in Democrats won’t vote republican just because they got some extra cash.
I said republicans just won 30 states, they don’t need people who voted D to switch to R. You need people who voted R to go back D
Nah, mobilization is the name of the game in hyper-partisan era's. Trump implicitly understood that on the campaign and Hillary and the Democrats didn't or couldn't match the same enthusiasm.
You always have a much better shot of trying to convince ten people who stayed home in an election to get out and vote than to try and change the mind of ten established supporters of the other guy/girl
Posted on 1/11/18 at 7:44 pm to Lsuchs
Trumps win was very targeted and very close. Literally less than 60k votes total in MI, Wisc, and PA go the other way (of the over 132 million that voted) and she wins. Not to mention the 3M in the popular vote she beat him in (not that the popular vote matters).
My point is I don’t think either party can realistically say, “no YOU need more votes!” It was so fricking close and could’ve easily gone the other way. Don’t believe me? Start with taking a basic stats class and learn a little about data distributions, that alone will shed some light on how much of a coin flip it essentially was.
My point is I don’t think either party can realistically say, “no YOU need more votes!” It was so fricking close and could’ve easily gone the other way. Don’t believe me? Start with taking a basic stats class and learn a little about data distributions, that alone will shed some light on how much of a coin flip it essentially was.
Posted on 1/11/18 at 7:45 pm to bonhoeffer45
While I don’t disagree, mobilization is a big part, what does this have to do with the point your we’re trying to make?
Do republicans need D votes to become R votes? Because it seemed like your point was the tax cuts won’t get them any.
The right needs to mobilize, just like the left does. I don’t think money in more people’s pockets helps the left any though.
quote:quote:
Do I have to vote Democrat if if I’m not against one thing I’ve [they’ve*] done?
You might not see it, but this is the point I'm trying to make to you.
Do republicans need D votes to become R votes? Because it seemed like your point was the tax cuts won’t get them any.
The right needs to mobilize, just like the left does. I don’t think money in more people’s pockets helps the left any though.
This post was edited on 1/11/18 at 7:48 pm
Posted on 1/11/18 at 7:46 pm to mwade91383
I'm afraid the Dems will go further left with their candidate in response to Trump and the pendulum will speed up instead of just swinging back.
We are not in a good place politically. If they counter with someone closer to full SJW than "classical liberal" I think the country continues down the divisive path.
We are not in a good place politically. If they counter with someone closer to full SJW than "classical liberal" I think the country continues down the divisive path.
Posted on 1/11/18 at 7:49 pm to mwade91383
quote:
Start with taking a basic stats class and learn a little about data distributions, that alone will shed some light on how much of a coin flip it essentially was.
Thanks for the advice, but I have and I do understand.
But you should take a modern history class, because he did win those states. He doesn’t need more votes, you do. Simple as that. You may get them you may not.
I think the strong economy and tax breaks will make it harder to mobilize voters
This post was edited on 1/11/18 at 7:52 pm
Posted on 1/11/18 at 7:57 pm to Lsuchs
quote:
Do republicans need D votes to become R votes? Because it seemed like your point was the tax cuts won’t get them any.
That was among the implication by a few people.
quote:
The right needs to mobilize, just like the left does. I don’t think money in more people’s pockets helps the left any though.
The right does need to mobilize, and 2018 isn't looking good for them on that front. 2020? Harder to say, but Trump won't have the benefit of his make-your-own-adventure blank slate advantage next go round.
He will have the incumbency benefit and potentially a good economy, but will have an actual record he will be anchored to and forced to defend, issue like healthcare, Net Neutrality, marijuana prosecution, effectiveness in office, charges of rampant cronyism, Paris Accords, and not having the unifying hatred of Hillary to bind often at conflict facets of the party. Will he foster the same enthusiasm? Will his cult of personality defy all of that? Hard to say.
This post was edited on 1/11/18 at 7:58 pm
Posted on 1/11/18 at 7:59 pm to roadGator
quote:
We are not in a good place politically. If they counter with someone closer to full SJW than "classical liberal"
What is a "classical liberal" in your mind?
Posted on 1/11/18 at 8:00 pm to roadGator
Wouldn’t shock me if they did, all in the name of “energy” and mobilizing people. That could very easily be somebody WAY left. I think everyone recognizes the importance of getting people excited to vote, Trump (and Obama) did this very well.
That said, and this is my opinion, I don’t think they (the Dems) need to. Trump is going to mobilize just as many supporters as he is people who want to see him go down, in some places he already has (like here in VA, Ralph Northam is as exciting as paint primer and he beat the living shite out of Gillespie, and not just NOVA).
If the Dems just nominate somebody relatively boring, some token white senator/governor with a boring past and stable voting record, he (and I say “he” intentionally) could very easily beat Trump. And yes, this person would be more of a classic liberal.
Will that actually happen? Who fricking knows. 2020 is an eternity away.
That said, and this is my opinion, I don’t think they (the Dems) need to. Trump is going to mobilize just as many supporters as he is people who want to see him go down, in some places he already has (like here in VA, Ralph Northam is as exciting as paint primer and he beat the living shite out of Gillespie, and not just NOVA).
If the Dems just nominate somebody relatively boring, some token white senator/governor with a boring past and stable voting record, he (and I say “he” intentionally) could very easily beat Trump. And yes, this person would be more of a classic liberal.
Will that actually happen? Who fricking knows. 2020 is an eternity away.
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