re: Conservatives: what's your beef with libertarianism?

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wasn't the question. why did you avoid answering a simple question?

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Excuse me, I thought it was just a silly rhetorical question. I couldn’t disagree more that the GOP is losing, and has been losing since FDR.

The GOP has never been stronger, as a matter of fact. Majorities in the House, Senate, and the presidency. Majorities in roughly 2/3 of state houses and 2/3 if state governorships. A slim, but soon to be expanded majority on the Supreme Court.

That’s not to say that conservatism has made tremendous progress, as most republicans are democrat-lite politicians, but that should be right up a libertarian’s alley, no?

Now, you do libertarians. Do you not agree that libertarians have been losing since 1970, when the party was formed?

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Now, you do libertarians. Do you not agree that libertarians have been losing since 1970, when the party was formed?

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This right here is your typical 2-party partisan mindset. More concerned about "winning" than policy.

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this is kind of like religion and the development of moral values. societal trial and error, especially over the last 500 years or so, has shown us systems that work REALLY well

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And the ones that work “really well” are the ones that line up with your personal standards. This is the argumentation I’ve been alluding too. In that response your assuming a standard of what’s good in order to argue for a standard of what’s good. That’s why I’ve insisted on justification of standards (how do you know that to be objectively true) not the assumptions of standards.

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private property doesn't have to be "moral" if it creates better societal outcomes

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Better by what standard? I believe private property must be a moral, God given right in order to be meaningful. In other words I have an “ought” I can appeal to. To take property unjustly from citizens is intrinsically wrong because it violates a God given standard.

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Just like how morality is really the function of societal trial and error

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Ergo, nothing is really morally good or bad that a society does. Every society in ages past was right in their own eyes and therefore never committed any attrocity. The rubber morality ruler was still moving so everything was ok. By this logic you can not persuade any government entity to preserve or profess any right to any citizen. Things just are the way they are and there’s no use calling anything wrong or unjust. You can claim that, but no one lives that way. We all assume that people should have a certain level of dignity regardless of the opinions of those in power. Those presuppositions cannot come from evolved morality, only from God given absolutes.

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The GOP has never been stronger, as a matter of fact. Majorities in the House, Senate, and the presidency. Majorities in roughly 2/3 of state houses and 2/3 if state governorships. A slim, but soon to be expanded majority on the Supreme Court.

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and what policies are they proposing? Trump is basically Bill Clinton. that means the GOP you're promoting was a Democratic party of 20 years ago

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Now, you do libertarians. Do you not agree that libertarians have been losing since 1970, when the party was formed?

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Libertarians are probably doing about as well as we've ever done with one house seat (Amash) and some seats in the Senate that are close to being libertarian. given the platform, we can't really expect more (people often value security and group identification over freedom). but when we lose, at least our policies are still consistent. when we win, it's full victory. you're only winning in name and are promoting Democrat values, just of 20 years ago. so...hooray?

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Conservatives: what's your beef with libertarianism?
The way I see it is liberals want the government taking and redistributing your money. They're also on some government controlled binge on "social justice."

Conservatives talk about keeping the government out of your life, but they want the government controlling who can get married, what days of the week you can buy alcohol, what religion should be present in schools, and when and where you can or cant gamble.

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I'd say 85 percent of this board is liberal. It's entertaining to read their excuses for acceptance of bigger government. They honestly believe that their disdain for welfare, immigration and gun control gives them the equity to skyscream, "liberal filth."

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Just because marxist democrats call them conservatives, doesn’t mean you have to as well. Republican doesn’t mean conservative. Surely you’re smarter than that.

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You breathlessly cite to GOP victories and majorities (see: quotes in SFP’s post above), then when confronted with the fact that those majorities have accomplished nothing, you no true Scotsman. Which is fine, but haven’t you then forfeited your entire argument?

If republican victories aren’t per se conservative victories, and if the conservative platform is losing, can you reasonably claim those republican victories and conservative victories at all?

Sounds to me like “conservatives” might just be as politically marginalized as libertarians...

(no message)

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but it galls you so much to admit your only path to success is through the republicans, you take every opportunity to shite on them. I guess it makes you little libertarians feel bigger.

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Um, no? We’ve been open about pushing the Republican Party more libertarian for over a decade

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Republican victories and majorities only mean an opportunity to further conservative philosophy.

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the entire point of this diversion-discussion is how your above statement is wrong

Republicans and "conservatives" have lost they're now promoting liberal philosophies, so their victories only mean an opportunity to further those liberal philosophies. more Republican victories means the opportunity to further the 1994 Democratic platform

There are very little differences between modern day Rs and Ds. Other than some Supreme Court nominees, they are identical to me: endless spending, endless wars, erosion of civil liberties.