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Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
14848 posts

re: Confederate Statue Removal
quote:

I don't understand honoring people who fought a war against our country and lost.



Southern pride is a quiet form of nationalism. Above all else, the South is our country.

It's like being Scottish.

We also looked to the past for our role models. We want to do right by our fathers. And we want to fulfill our obligation to sustain our culture, and pass it down to our children.

We don't care about what some person up in New York thinks. They don't matter.
This post was edited on 9/12 at 10:12 pm


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SammyTiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
51819 posts

re: Confederate Statue Removal
quote:

Take your high school history education that you acquired from some football coach pretending to teach history and shove it up your Bolshevik butt.


You know you didn’t learn the BS you’re spouting from an actual history teacher/professor, high school or otherwise.

The VP of the CSA said it was about Slavery.

You can read Georgia’s declaration of succession, and it will tell you it was about slavery.

So will Mississippi’s

“ Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world.”





Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
14848 posts

re: Confederate Statue Removal
quote:

You know you didn’t learn the BS you’re spouting from an actual history teacher/professor, high school or otherwise.


You are not well educated.

Take off your hat, and find your humility.


Linoge
Member since Jun 2013
999 posts

re: Confederate Statue Removal
quote:

Most Americans have nice homes, cars, barns, boats, vacation houses, properties, and other stuff that they will not do anything to lose it. Just the way it is. Oh, they also have their football teams that they must go and root for every weekend. They don’t care about heritage, honor, or any of that other American stuff.


I know what you mean but what these ostriches dont realize is what is coming next.

Soon, they will all lose their nice homes, cars, barns, boats, and vacation house. Marxists dont stop at symbols and history.

What they really want is everything you own, including your very family.

This will only end one way.




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31
SammyTiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
51819 posts

re: Confederate Statue Removal
quote:

You are not well educated.

Take off your hat, and find your humility.


Primary sources >>> bull shite on the Internet

It’s amazing that you’ll take a White Russian’s diary as gospel but dismiss Georgians Declaration of Secession

Acting like you won’t find hundreds of historians that will just tell you it was mostly about slavery.
This post was edited on 9/12 at 10:30 pm


jptiger2009
Southeastern LA Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2009
8490 posts

re: Confederate Statue Removal
Liberal Taliban taking over america...taking down statues of seperationists!


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SCLibertarian
South Carolina Fan
Conway, South Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
28632 posts

re: Confederate Statue Removal
quote:

I don't understand honoring people who fought a war against our country and lost.


The country we have now is an absolute perversion of what our Founding Fathers intended, specifically because the Union side was victorious. Do you think Washington, Jefferson and Madison would have taken up arms against the Confederacy and their fellow Southerners? How about Patrick Henry or Thomas Paine? The traitors were the Yankees who abandoned the principles of the American Revolution 80 years earlier and created a large centralized state from the ashes of a war that killed over 600k people.


AU86
Western Carolina Fan
Member since Aug 2009
19260 posts

re: Confederate Statue Removal
Refute one thing that I said about slavery and/or Lincoln's position in regard to it or the South's position in regard to the tariff or the position of slavery in the territories. Those are historical facts. Why didn't Lincoln's political proclamation free any slaves in Kentucky or Delaware or Maryland at the time? Why didn't Lincoln just abolish slavery everywhere? Did the South have to secede to preserve slavery where it existed? Answer those questions. BTW: I never said that slavery did not play a role in the causes of secession. Lincoln's proposal to prohibit slavery in the territories is after all about what? SLAVERY. The South's position on this was that it was unconstitutional because it limited the right to transfer property across geographical lines which were guaranteed by the constitution. You leftists are brain dead just like your president.
This post was edited on 9/12 at 11:25 pm


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Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
14848 posts

re: Confederate Statue Removal
quote:

Primary sources


That’s the problem. You don’t understand the period or how they thought. You have a superficial education and you can’t see the world through their eyes, or understand how the issues reveal deeper seated problems. You’re literal to the point of ignorance.

Southern newspapers in the 1850s and 1860s wrote repeatedly about their fear of slavery. Southerners were preoccupied with the idea. But they weren’t talking about chattel slavery. They were worried about being politically dominated and crushed by the north.

Little about the period was simple though.

The average free-soiler, for example, believed that paid labor was morally superior to slave labor. And they simultaneously believed, that Blacks were morally inferior to Whites. And they were strongly opposed to freeing slaves.

Slavery was the crash point of the late antebellum period, but as much as was the point of conflict, it wasn’t the source. Each block, north and south, has a different culture and even class structure, the north was mercantile and middle class, and New England was still very theocratic, the south was agrarian and if it modeled itself after anything, it was medieval England, with its own landed aristocracy.

The most popular book in Richmond in the years before the war, was Ivanhoe.

That’s how southerners saw themselves.

These cultures were mutually incomprehensible, and incompatible. And they had very different economic interests, and while slavery was a critical issue, it was a symptom of the larger gulf between the two blocks.

There was no way to compromise on economic issues in Washington for example.

The south depended on imports, the north wanted tariffs to protect their own domestic industries. Northerners strongly supported the use of federal funds to make infrastructure improvements. Southerners screamed that this was theft, and an unjust use of power.

Either the north won, and the south lost, or the south lost, and the north won.

And that was the story again and again, from the debates over a national bank, to domestic improvements, to tariffs, to slavery. It was harder and harder, if not impossible to compromise. Someone was going to win, and someone was going to lose.

The shared culture values, the focus on honor, the belief in agrarian lifestyle, also had a profound effect on the southern states. Southerners came to understand that there was something called the south, and while the states could be very different, they shared a basic outlook on life, that made them different from the centralized and often totalitarian worldview of the Puritan North East. What began as southern pride became full throated southern nationalism. And it’s why, ultimately, more than 92% of eligible men fought for the Confederacy.
This post was edited on 9/12 at 11:33 pm


AU86
Western Carolina Fan
Member since Aug 2009
19260 posts

re: Confederate Statue Removal
"They (the South) know that it is their import trade that draws from the peoples pockets sixty or seventy millions of dollars per annum, in the shape of duties, to be expended mainly in the North, and in the protection and encouragement of Northern interest. These are the reasons why these people do not wish the South to secede from the union”.
New Orleans Daily Crescent-1861

“The Southern Confederacy will not employ our ships or buy our goods. What is our shipping without it? Literally nothing… it is very clear that the South gains by this process and we lose. No…we must not let the South go”.
Union Democrat Manchester, New Hampshire. 19 February, 1861

“Any people, anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right, a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world”.
Abraham Lincoln – U.S. Congress, 1847

A little over 10 years later after the South attempted precisely that, Lincoln, when asked, “Why not let the South go in peace”? replied; “I can’t let them go. Who would pay for the government”? “And, what then will become of my tariff”?
Abraham Lincoln to Virginia Compromise Delegation March 1861


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SammyTiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
51819 posts

re: Confederate Statue Removal
quote:

Southern newspapers in the 1850s and 1860s wrote repeatedly about their fear of slavery. Southerners were preoccupied with the idea. But they weren’t talking about chattel slavery. They were worried about being politically dominated and crushed by the north.


Except when they wrote their declarations of succession they specifically talked about negro slaves.

Your problem is you start with your conclusion and work backwards to justify it.

I’m white guy from the south. I don’t LIKE that this is the truth, but you’re spinning bull shite.
This post was edited on 9/12 at 11:39 pm


Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
14848 posts

re: Confederate Statue Removal
quote:

I’m white guy from the south.


You don’t say southerner

I’m picking on you, but there’s a difference between the two statements

quote:

Your problem is you start with your conclusion and work backwards to justify it.


I went to high school in Massachusetts, which is a liberal place, but my school was out there, even for Massachusetts. Our history textbook was A People’s History of the United States, by Howard Zinn.

UVA changed my mind about a lot of things.

Gary Gallagher was especially influential. He wrote extensively about the southern nationalism in his book the Confederate War. Michael Holt was also very good. He spent his career researching the the antebellum period and why the war happened. His major focus was teaching us to see the conflict as people of the period saw it. He would famously ask on his exams for students to explain the political views of … an Irish dock worker, or a river boat gambler. To pick two examples.
This post was edited on 9/13 at 12:02 am


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wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
886 posts

re: Confederate Statue Removal
quote:

The civil war was not fought over slavery.


Then why did the vice-president of the Confederacy say that it was? More specifically, that it was fought over white supremacy?


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FredBear
USA Fan
Member since Aug 2017
9796 posts

re: Confederate Statue Removal
I recommend the book "The South Was Right" by James Ronald Kennedy and Walter Donald Kennedy. It explains how the South was an independent country invaded, captured and still occupied by a vicious aggressor


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wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
886 posts

re: Confederate Statue Removal
quote:


The country we have now is an absolute perversion of what our Founding Fathers intended


About that.

Do you think that "All men are created equal," was a deliberate lie from the beginning, or do you think it was an ideal that was meant sincerely but culture blinded people so much that we were enslaving some men while touting this statement simultaneously for (give or take) a couple hundred years, including the Jim Crow era?

I suppose the answer to the question you asked lies at least partially in the answer to the above. If it was a deliberate lie to begin with, then maybe Jefferson and Madison would have fought for the Confederacy.

I think it's pretty clear that the FF meant for the country to be governed by a landowner class, at the very least.

I believe in federalism. But in order for a constitutional republic to work, states can't engage in activities that so blatantly violate constitutional precepts.


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wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
886 posts

re: Confederate Statue Removal
quote:

The civil war was not fought over slavery.


Then there were several Confederate leaders very confused about what was going on. Because they said/wrote that it was.

quote:

Lincoln was a tyrant.


He may have been. And probably a hypocrite, too. And if not for the slavery motive, the Confederacy may have maintained the moral high ground. Alas.

quote:

You'll find out soon enough when the communists make you a slave.



Well, perhaps you and I can start a movement in which we go kidnap a bunch of people and institute forced labor upon them. When the government comes to arrest us, we'll cry, "Tyrant!" and start a war against the United States.

Then we'll be heroes too.


FredBear
USA Fan
Member since Aug 2017
9796 posts

re: Confederate Statue Removal
quote:

Well, perhaps you and I can start a movement in which we go kidnap a bunch of people and institute forced labor upon them



The slaves were not kidnapped, they were sold. By their own people.

Not saying that makes it right but I wanted to correct your false premise


dchog
Arkansas Fan
Pea ridge
Member since Nov 2012
7354 posts

re: Confederate Statue Removal
Find a home in a red state.


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wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
886 posts

re: Confederate Statue Removal
quote:

The slaves were not kidnapped, they were sold. By their own people.

Not saying that makes it right but I wanted to correct your false premise


How do you think they got to the United States to be sold?

Good grief you guys will grasp at any straw you can find to minimize this.

If it will make you feel better I could say that we could pay someone else to kidnap a bunch of people and then force labor on them.
This post was edited on 9/13 at 8:12 am


JawjaTigah
Bizarro World
Member since Sep 2003
21898 posts

re: Confederate Statue Removal
quote:

Where do you go when home no longer exists?

I feel your pain. It is how I feel about New Orleans. There, but gone.


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