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re: CMV: "Red Flag Laws" are a complete non-starter
Posted on 5/31/22 at 9:22 am to 850SaintsGator
Posted on 5/31/22 at 9:22 am to 850SaintsGator
quote:The contested hearing is usually held in just a few days. SCOTUS has ruled repeatedly that ex parte relief does NOT violate due process rights when the contested hearing follows promptly after service and notice of the ex parte action.
I think there is a due process - after the investigation, if it’s unproven and the person is mentally sound, they get their property back.
But Troy does not recognize SCOTUS’ authority to make such a ruling. He understands the Constitution better than 15 generations of the top lawyers this country has produced.
1
Posted on 5/31/22 at 9:24 am to 850SaintsGator
quote:Just like civil asset forfeiture. "Prove you're innocent and you'll get your stuff back". The American way! Guilty until proven innocent. Sounds wonderful.
I think there is a due process - after the investigation, if it’s unproven and the person is mentally sound, they get their property back. I find that a normal police practice with other things-
Posted on 5/31/22 at 9:26 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
quote:
I think there is a due process - after the investigation, if it’s unproven and the person is mentally sound, they get their property back. I find that a normal police practice with other things-
Just like civil asset forfeiture. "Prove you're innocent and you'll get your stuff back". The American way! Guilty until proven innocent. Sounds wonderful.
I'm sure getting a prompt hearing date on these things will be a piece of cake.
Posted on 5/31/22 at 9:28 am to Taxing Authority
quote:Each state has a unique statute, but I believe that ALL of them place the BoP upon the STATE.
Just like civil asset forfeiture. "Prove you're innocent and you'll get your stuff back". The American way! Guilty until proven innocent. Sounds wonderful.
In most, the standard seems to be “clear and convincing evidence,” rather than the lower “preponderance” standard used in most civil matters.
This post was edited on 5/31/22 at 9:33 am
Posted on 5/31/22 at 9:30 am to Y.A. Tittle
quote:Most states seem to give these hearings scheduling priority, precisely BECAUSE of the due process issues.
I'm sure getting a prompt hearing date on these things will be a piece of cake.
Posted on 5/31/22 at 9:31 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
Just like civil asset forfeiture. "Prove you're innocent and you'll get your stuff back". The American way! Guilty until proven innocent. Sounds wonderful.
I think it’s different- you never get your cash money back- you get your guns back.
It like impounded cars during an investigation- you eventually get it back if your are innocent.
Red flag laws also help DV situations too not just mass shootings (think about ALL the stories of people coming out after a killing saying “ we reported to police and nothing happened…now something can happen.)
Listen, something has to change - i shouldn’t have to buy a bullet proof backpack for my children’s protections ….i support 2A so i don’t want to see strict gun registrations…this seems smart bc again- we have to do something
Posted on 5/31/22 at 9:35 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Most states seem to give these hearings scheduling priority, precisely BECAUSE of the due process issues.
You think the numbers who might be subject to such "red flag laws" will be similar to that of those subject to civil forfeiture issues?
Seems rather optimistic.
Posted on 5/31/22 at 9:45 am to sugarbuzz
This administration pretty much labeled parents protesting CRT and gender identity being taught to kindergarten as domestic terrorists. All those people would already be red flagged.
Posted on 5/31/22 at 10:01 am to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
Seems rather optimistic.
I think "naive" is the word you are looking for.
Posted on 5/31/22 at 10:02 am to skeeter531
quote:
This administration pretty much labeled parents protesting CRT and gender identity being taught to kindergarten as domestic terrorists.
This can't be upvoted enough.
In 2022, there is ZERO reason to trust the process, it has been corrupted by Political zealots.
Posted on 5/31/22 at 10:02 am to 850SaintsGator
quote:
I think there is a due process - after the investigation, if it’s unproven and the person is mentally sound, they get their property back. I find that a normal police practice with other things-
So, guilty until proven innocent sounds fine to you?
Posted on 5/31/22 at 10:08 am to AggieHank86
quote:
But Troy does not recognize SCOTUS’ authority to make such a ruling. He understands the Constitution better than 15 generations of the top lawyers this country has produced.
quote:
Amendment V No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
First thing you have said right in months, Hankabitch. If you can read the bolded above and think taking people’s shite without taking them to court, you’re the same a-hole tyrant as the ones who wear robes.
Posted on 5/31/22 at 10:11 am to Y.A. Tittle
quote:On plenty of occasions, I have sat thru delays in starting long-scheduled hearings, so that courts could handle newer matters with statutory scheduling priority.
You think the numbers who might be subject to such "red flag laws" will be similar to that of those subject to civil forfeiture issues? Seems rather optimistic.
So, yes, I am confident that (at least in Texas) prompt hearings would be the norm if a Red Flag law were enacted. Cannot speak to other states.
Posted on 5/31/22 at 10:12 am to sugarbuzz
quote:or “experienced.”
Seems rather optimistic.quote:
I think "naive" is the word you are looking for.
Posted on 5/31/22 at 10:17 am to troyt37
quote:so clever. You are a true wordsmith, Troy.
Hankabitch
No need for a coherent argument, when you can just spout this sort of eloquence.
This post was edited on 5/31/22 at 10:21 am
Posted on 5/31/22 at 10:31 am to AggieHank86
quote:
No need for a coherent argument, when you can just spout this sort of eloquence.
My argument is in your face, Hanky. Only a tyrant can give themselves permission to violate your rights, and declare that they haven’t.
If the SCOTUS says so, letting you have a lawyer 3 days after your trial isn’t a violation either, is it?
Posted on 5/31/22 at 10:33 am to 850SaintsGator
quote:
we have to do something
No. No we don’t
Posted on 5/31/22 at 10:33 am to troyt37
quote:
Only a tyrant can give themselves permission to violate your rights, and declare that they haven’t.
But if that tyrant is a lawyer or a judge, all is copacetic apparently.
Bow to their will, peasant, Constitution be damned!
Posted on 5/31/22 at 10:38 am to troyt37
Troy, you do not even understand the issues, much less the answers. That level of ignorance makes it tiresome to even try engaging you in a civil discussion.
A temporary ex parte hearing is not a “trial.”
A temporary ex parte hearing is not a “trial.”
Posted on 5/31/22 at 10:41 am to troyt37
So, guilty until proven innocent sounds fine to you?
Huh? That’s literally our Justice system - a person gets arrested - at that moment, they are being found guilty of something and the they are proven innocent - the red flag law is the same….a charge of mental incapacitation is made- police confiscate weapons and an investigation is made-
Huh? That’s literally our Justice system - a person gets arrested - at that moment, they are being found guilty of something and the they are proven innocent - the red flag law is the same….a charge of mental incapacitation is made- police confiscate weapons and an investigation is made-
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