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California Shooter - Fact gathering

Posted on 11/18/17 at 9:36 am
Posted by mmcgrath
Indianapolis
Member since Feb 2010
35406 posts
Posted on 11/18/17 at 9:36 am
Before we start recommending new laws or arguing against them, the facts suggest a lot went wrong.
Good article on shooter, guns, and court actions

* Shooter had two manufactured AR style rifles. They were built from online purchased kits. It is not clear what type of kit was used.
* Shooter also had 2 handguns including one that was bought in 2009 in North Carolina.
* Shooter had a history of mental health problems.
* Shooter shot at and stabbed a neighbor in January. Was out on bail a few days later.
* Neighbor took out protective custody order in February. Prosecutor said the order banned the guns. No word on any attempt to search or confiscate.
* There was a domestic violence call to shooter's house the day before shooting.
* Five people killed, 10 injured.
* Shooter tried to get into school but it was on lockdown as they heard gunshots before shooter got there.


What we don't know:
* Whether gun used in January was confiscated.
* Details on 2nd handgun.
* Any attempt to search and confiscate guns after protective order.
* Was any effort from mental health professionals done to put shooter on list to prevent gun purchases.

ETA: changed kit description. Took out fact on ghost kit until we know what kit was used.
This post was edited on 11/18/17 at 10:09 am
Posted by idlewatcher
County Jail
Member since Jan 2012
79188 posts
Posted on 11/18/17 at 9:41 am to
quote:

Was any effort from mental health professionals done to put shooter on list to prevent gun purchases


I think this gives doctors entirely too much leeway to diagnose someone as unfit. Doctors with a personal bias would claim someone is unfit to possess a firearm just on principle. And what recourse would someone have to contest it? Slippery slope IMO.
Posted by wickowick
Head of Island
Member since Dec 2006
45814 posts
Posted on 11/18/17 at 9:42 am to
quote:

* Kits purchased online can be built in hours, don't require serial numbers or background checks.


What kits are your referring to?
Posted by Ross
Member since Oct 2007
47824 posts
Posted on 11/18/17 at 9:44 am to
I could 3D print parts that I could assemble into a gun that might break after one shot but also doesn't have a serial number, and as far as I know I didn't get background checked to buy my 3D printer.
This post was edited on 11/18/17 at 2:10 pm
Posted by Capital Cajun
Over Yonder
Member since Aug 2007
5525 posts
Posted on 11/18/17 at 9:46 am to
quote:

Kits purchased online can be built in hours, don't require serial numbers or background checks.


This is not correct, all parts except for the lower receiver can be purchased on line. The receiver has a serial number and must be purchased through a licensed dealer.
Posted by Ingeniero
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2013
18287 posts
Posted on 11/18/17 at 9:47 am to
quote:

Kits purchased online can be built in hours, don't require serial numbers or background checks.

If a "kit" includes a lower, this isn't true. An AR lower has to be shipped to a dealer and a background check has to be run before you can purchase it.
Posted by mmcgrath
Indianapolis
Member since Feb 2010
35406 posts
Posted on 11/18/17 at 9:58 am to
quote:

What kits are your referring to?
Here is a good article on them
quote:

But there is a way to avoid that check. People can buy an “80 percent lower receiver,” a chunk of metal manufactured to a point that it still doesn’t qualify fully as a gun. Buyers must drill the holes and make other modifications before other parts can be added.

“It’s not a complete firearm,” Haggerty said. “But, you can mill it yourself.”

Converting the piece of metal into a firearm takes only a few hours.

Posted by ninthward
Boston, MA
Member since May 2007
20421 posts
Posted on 11/18/17 at 9:59 am to
quote:

Fact gathering
quote:

Kits purchased online can be built in hours, don't require serial numbers or background checks.

Posted by Dale51
Member since Oct 2016
32378 posts
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:00 am to
You forgots some.

Shooter was a libtard, Bernie supporter (because Bernie is into raping women), and was struggling with his gayness. At least that's what I heard.
Posted by Tiguar
Montana
Member since Mar 2012
33131 posts
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:05 am to
Stop the presses, someone with a mill or metalworking equipment can manufacture a gun?!

Posted by Ingeniero
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2013
18287 posts
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:07 am to
oh boy, are we gonna start the 80 percent lower argument?

You can get a car without an engine, it only takes a few hours to have a functioning car if you know what you're doing.
Posted by mmcgrath
Indianapolis
Member since Feb 2010
35406 posts
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:09 am to
quote:

oh boy, are we gonna start the 80 percent lower argument?

changed it for now until confirmed. But it will fit in with the bump stock debate of parts vs guns. Just not now.
Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:21 am to
So many mentally ill people loose in society, so many guns for easy access, so few mental institutions. Says it all.

Posted by mmcgrath
Indianapolis
Member since Feb 2010
35406 posts
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:32 am to
quote:

I think this gives doctors entirely too much leeway to diagnose someone as unfit. Doctors with a personal bias would claim someone is unfit to possess a firearm just on principle. And what recourse would someone have to contest it? Slippery slope IMO.
I think we have a lot of room before we hit that slippery slope. Every decision involving the removal of the 2A right involve a very good amount of appeals and safeguards. If there aren't enough, let's strengthen them.

Right now the law regarding reporting issues is too restrictive.
Posted by mmcgrath
Indianapolis
Member since Feb 2010
35406 posts
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:34 am to
Anyone whose picture looks like that probably should have their house searched for guns.
Posted by beerJeep
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2016
35045 posts
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:35 am to
We need common sense alcohol control. Almost 100,000 people die each year in America due to alcohol. This is an outrageous number.

We Ned mental health screenings for all alcoholic purchases.

You got arrested for domestic abuse? No whiskey for you!

You got arrested for sexual assault? Guess who's banned from drinking?!

Uh oh... You're depressed? Well.... Study after study shows that depressed people are exponentially more likely to commit suicide after drinking. No alcohol for you!

So let's recap.

Alcohol. Not a protected right. Kills almost 100,000 a year. Is a massive driving force in sexual assault, domestic abuse, and suicides. Has very very little positive influence your health. Is a massive contributor to our massive Healthcare cost.

I mean, let's be honest. In today's modern progressive society, we have no room for a drug that has been proven time and time again to be a leading favor in abuse, suicide, and a massive amount of deaths.

This is your chance.you can show everyone that you aren't a hypocrite and that saving lives and common sense solutions are the way to go.

Edit: let's not forget the detrimental effect alcohol has on low income earners. Or how alcohol companies target minorities and poor people damn near exclusively. Why do you hate poors?





Or...... Are you a hypocrite?
This post was edited on 11/18/17 at 10:39 am
Posted by Dale51
Member since Oct 2016
32378 posts
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:37 am to
Looks like a typical Obama voter.
Posted by wickowick
Head of Island
Member since Dec 2006
45814 posts
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:42 am to
Do you realize you can make a buy rubber bands and shoe strings and convert a semi auto gun into full auto? Should we register rubber bands and shoe strings?
Posted by beerJeep
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2016
35045 posts
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:44 am to
Shhhhhh.. Don't tell him about belt loops.... He will come in quickly telling us how we must ban belts and belt loops and go to all elastic waistbands
This post was edited on 11/18/17 at 10:45 am
Posted by beerJeep
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2016
35045 posts
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:59 am to
Damn. Mmcgrath. Always run away when confronted with facts.

Oh I do love your link as well... Wonder why you stopped your quote where you did. Here, let me finish it off for you.
quote:

Converting the piece of metal into a firearm takes only a few hours. A drill press or a metal cutting machine known as a Computer Numeric Control, is used to create a few holes in the receiver and well out a cavity.


Wonder why you left out the need for specialized equipment that cost in the tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars range?

You do know that you can build a firearm out of PVC, duct tape, a nail and a shotgun shell.

Wanna ban PVC pipe, duct tape and nails as well?
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