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Message
California Shooter - Fact gathering
Posted on 11/18/17 at 9:36 am
Posted on 11/18/17 at 9:36 am
Before we start recommending new laws or arguing against them, the facts suggest a lot went wrong.
Good article on shooter, guns, and court actions
* Shooter had two manufactured AR style rifles. They were built from online purchased kits. It is not clear what type of kit was used.
* Shooter also had 2 handguns including one that was bought in 2009 in North Carolina.
* Shooter had a history of mental health problems.
* Shooter shot at and stabbed a neighbor in January. Was out on bail a few days later.
* Neighbor took out protective custody order in February. Prosecutor said the order banned the guns. No word on any attempt to search or confiscate.
* There was a domestic violence call to shooter's house the day before shooting.
* Five people killed, 10 injured.
* Shooter tried to get into school but it was on lockdown as they heard gunshots before shooter got there.
What we don't know:
* Whether gun used in January was confiscated.
* Details on 2nd handgun.
* Any attempt to search and confiscate guns after protective order.
* Was any effort from mental health professionals done to put shooter on list to prevent gun purchases.
ETA: changed kit description. Took out fact on ghost kit until we know what kit was used.
Good article on shooter, guns, and court actions
* Shooter had two manufactured AR style rifles. They were built from online purchased kits. It is not clear what type of kit was used.
* Shooter also had 2 handguns including one that was bought in 2009 in North Carolina.
* Shooter had a history of mental health problems.
* Shooter shot at and stabbed a neighbor in January. Was out on bail a few days later.
* Neighbor took out protective custody order in February. Prosecutor said the order banned the guns. No word on any attempt to search or confiscate.
* There was a domestic violence call to shooter's house the day before shooting.
* Five people killed, 10 injured.
* Shooter tried to get into school but it was on lockdown as they heard gunshots before shooter got there.
What we don't know:
* Whether gun used in January was confiscated.
* Details on 2nd handgun.
* Any attempt to search and confiscate guns after protective order.
* Was any effort from mental health professionals done to put shooter on list to prevent gun purchases.
ETA: changed kit description. Took out fact on ghost kit until we know what kit was used.
This post was edited on 11/18/17 at 10:09 am
Posted on 11/18/17 at 9:41 am to mmcgrath
quote:
Was any effort from mental health professionals done to put shooter on list to prevent gun purchases
I think this gives doctors entirely too much leeway to diagnose someone as unfit. Doctors with a personal bias would claim someone is unfit to possess a firearm just on principle. And what recourse would someone have to contest it? Slippery slope IMO.
Posted on 11/18/17 at 9:42 am to mmcgrath
quote:
* Kits purchased online can be built in hours, don't require serial numbers or background checks.
What kits are your referring to?
Posted on 11/18/17 at 9:44 am to mmcgrath
I could 3D print parts that I could assemble into a gun that might break after one shot but also doesn't have a serial number, and as far as I know I didn't get background checked to buy my 3D printer.
This post was edited on 11/18/17 at 2:10 pm
Posted on 11/18/17 at 9:46 am to mmcgrath
quote:
Kits purchased online can be built in hours, don't require serial numbers or background checks.
This is not correct, all parts except for the lower receiver can be purchased on line. The receiver has a serial number and must be purchased through a licensed dealer.
Posted on 11/18/17 at 9:47 am to mmcgrath
quote:
Kits purchased online can be built in hours, don't require serial numbers or background checks.
If a "kit" includes a lower, this isn't true. An AR lower has to be shipped to a dealer and a background check has to be run before you can purchase it.
Posted on 11/18/17 at 9:58 am to wickowick
quote:Here is a good article on them
What kits are your referring to?
quote:
But there is a way to avoid that check. People can buy an “80 percent lower receiver,” a chunk of metal manufactured to a point that it still doesn’t qualify fully as a gun. Buyers must drill the holes and make other modifications before other parts can be added.
“It’s not a complete firearm,” Haggerty said. “But, you can mill it yourself.”
Converting the piece of metal into a firearm takes only a few hours.
Posted on 11/18/17 at 9:59 am to mmcgrath
quote:
Fact gathering
quote:
Kits purchased online can be built in hours, don't require serial numbers or background checks.
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:00 am to mmcgrath
You forgots some.
Shooter was a libtard, Bernie supporter (because Bernie is into raping women), and was struggling with his gayness. At least that's what I heard.
Shooter was a libtard, Bernie supporter (because Bernie is into raping women), and was struggling with his gayness. At least that's what I heard.
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:05 am to mmcgrath
Stop the presses, someone with a mill or metalworking equipment can manufacture a gun?!
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:07 am to mmcgrath
oh boy, are we gonna start the 80 percent lower argument?
You can get a car without an engine, it only takes a few hours to have a functioning car if you know what you're doing.
You can get a car without an engine, it only takes a few hours to have a functioning car if you know what you're doing.
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:09 am to Ingeniero
quote:changed it for now until confirmed. But it will fit in with the bump stock debate of parts vs guns. Just not now.
oh boy, are we gonna start the 80 percent lower argument?
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:21 am to mmcgrath
So many mentally ill people loose in society, so many guns for easy access, so few mental institutions. Says it all.
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:32 am to idlewatcher
quote:I think we have a lot of room before we hit that slippery slope. Every decision involving the removal of the 2A right involve a very good amount of appeals and safeguards. If there aren't enough, let's strengthen them.
I think this gives doctors entirely too much leeway to diagnose someone as unfit. Doctors with a personal bias would claim someone is unfit to possess a firearm just on principle. And what recourse would someone have to contest it? Slippery slope IMO.
Right now the law regarding reporting issues is too restrictive.
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:34 am to Kentucker
Anyone whose picture looks like that probably should have their house searched for guns.
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:35 am to mmcgrath
We need common sense alcohol control. Almost 100,000 people die each year in America due to alcohol. This is an outrageous number.
We Ned mental health screenings for all alcoholic purchases.
You got arrested for domestic abuse? No whiskey for you!
You got arrested for sexual assault? Guess who's banned from drinking?!
Uh oh... You're depressed? Well.... Study after study shows that depressed people are exponentially more likely to commit suicide after drinking. No alcohol for you!
So let's recap.
Alcohol. Not a protected right. Kills almost 100,000 a year. Is a massive driving force in sexual assault, domestic abuse, and suicides. Has very very little positive influence your health. Is a massive contributor to our massive Healthcare cost.
I mean, let's be honest. In today's modern progressive society, we have no room for a drug that has been proven time and time again to be a leading favor in abuse, suicide, and a massive amount of deaths.
This is your chance.you can show everyone that you aren't a hypocrite and that saving lives and common sense solutions are the way to go.
Edit: let's not forget the detrimental effect alcohol has on low income earners. Or how alcohol companies target minorities and poor people damn near exclusively. Why do you hate poors?
Or...... Are you a hypocrite?
We Ned mental health screenings for all alcoholic purchases.
You got arrested for domestic abuse? No whiskey for you!
You got arrested for sexual assault? Guess who's banned from drinking?!
Uh oh... You're depressed? Well.... Study after study shows that depressed people are exponentially more likely to commit suicide after drinking. No alcohol for you!
So let's recap.
Alcohol. Not a protected right. Kills almost 100,000 a year. Is a massive driving force in sexual assault, domestic abuse, and suicides. Has very very little positive influence your health. Is a massive contributor to our massive Healthcare cost.
I mean, let's be honest. In today's modern progressive society, we have no room for a drug that has been proven time and time again to be a leading favor in abuse, suicide, and a massive amount of deaths.
This is your chance.you can show everyone that you aren't a hypocrite and that saving lives and common sense solutions are the way to go.
Edit: let's not forget the detrimental effect alcohol has on low income earners. Or how alcohol companies target minorities and poor people damn near exclusively. Why do you hate poors?
Or...... Are you a hypocrite?
This post was edited on 11/18/17 at 10:39 am
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:37 am to Kentucker
Looks like a typical Obama voter.
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:42 am to mmcgrath
Do you realize you can make a buy rubber bands and shoe strings and convert a semi auto gun into full auto? Should we register rubber bands and shoe strings?
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:44 am to wickowick
Shhhhhh.. Don't tell him about belt loops.... He will come in quickly telling us how we must ban belts and belt loops and go to all elastic waistbands
This post was edited on 11/18/17 at 10:45 am
Posted on 11/18/17 at 10:59 am to mmcgrath
Damn. Mmcgrath. Always run away when confronted with facts.
Oh I do love your link as well... Wonder why you stopped your quote where you did. Here, let me finish it off for you.
Wonder why you left out the need for specialized equipment that cost in the tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars range?
You do know that you can build a firearm out of PVC, duct tape, a nail and a shotgun shell.
Wanna ban PVC pipe, duct tape and nails as well?
Oh I do love your link as well... Wonder why you stopped your quote where you did. Here, let me finish it off for you.
quote:
Converting the piece of metal into a firearm takes only a few hours. A drill press or a metal cutting machine known as a Computer Numeric Control, is used to create a few holes in the receiver and well out a cavity.
Wonder why you left out the need for specialized equipment that cost in the tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars range?
You do know that you can build a firearm out of PVC, duct tape, a nail and a shotgun shell.
Wanna ban PVC pipe, duct tape and nails as well?
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