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re: Birthright citizenship - Library of congress deleted history!

Posted on 1/21/26 at 2:47 pm to
Posted by Vacherie Saint
Member since Aug 2015
47572 posts
Posted on 1/21/26 at 2:47 pm to
oh shut up.

you are interpreting the text with your own biases just as the author was. The meaning was as clear to him as it seems to you - even though you see different things.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476616 posts
Posted on 1/21/26 at 2:49 pm to
quote:

you are interpreting the text with your own biases just as the author was.


I am not interpreting the text. I'm relying on the in dept textualist analysis of Wong Kim Ark, which is the current precedent in the matter.

I don't know if you know this, but I was not a Supreme Court Justice in 1898. I'm not a Highlander.

Posted by Champagne
Sabine Free State.
Member since Oct 2007
55265 posts
Posted on 1/21/26 at 2:51 pm to
quote:

Then they should have used their words more good.


I'm sorry that the Legislative History does not support your view, however, that is the best that we have that is concrete. We should refuse to engage in the kind of speculation that your view requires.

The Court should hold firm and take the Legislative History on its face, without inventing bizarre counter-proposals that nullify the best record that we have simply because some of us want Anchor Babies to be a thing.

Anchor Babies are like Evil Spock, counselor. I will not allow Evil Spock in my courtroom.
Posted by Vacherie Saint
Member since Aug 2015
47572 posts
Posted on 1/21/26 at 2:53 pm to
And I'm telling you that "muh textualism" is a red herring. People see what they want to see.

And WKA's parents were here legally. Now frick off.
Posted by UtahCajun
Member since Jul 2021
5563 posts
Posted on 1/21/26 at 2:56 pm to
quote:

For this analysis, you have to ask each legislator who voted on it for their individual view of the language


Or

Just read the winning arguments
Posted by captainFid
Never apologize to barbarism
Member since Dec 2014
10545 posts
Posted on 1/21/26 at 2:56 pm to
quote:

This ruling is going to be a test to see whether Clarence Thomas rejects his textual roots and adopts the living document method. That is the preferred method of leftists.


Why don't we test 'Wise Latina' or 'I'm not a biologist' first, and get rid of the low hanging, rotten fruit who's vote is never upset by 'history', precedence, morals, the constitution, or anything other than Democratic Dogma.

Then we can discuss your test.
Posted by UtahCajun
Member since Jul 2021
5563 posts
Posted on 1/21/26 at 2:59 pm to
quote:

But that judge showed that Chinese are people, too!

Decision was correct at the time.

Call me someone who believes in "living documents", but there was no way anyone could have forseen how that decision is being abused today. Immigration was much different then than it is today.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476616 posts
Posted on 1/21/26 at 3:01 pm to
quote:

however, that is the best that we have that is concrete. We should refuse to engage in the kind of speculation that your view requires.


Textualism is not speculation.

It's reading the words and applying the meaning of those words.

quote:

The Court should hold firm and take the Legislative History on its face

And just ignore the words used and what they mean? Why?

Legislators are often terrible at writing legislation. I've actually argued this at the appellate level before. And our matter was AFTER the legislature re-wrote the statute to overrule a supreme court (state) case that ruled opposed to how the legislative authors wanted the statute to read, and they still fricked up the language. The stated intention of the author in the legislative history cannot cure writing a law that says something opposed to their intention. Text, not intention, matters. No participation trophies should be awarded in statutory analysis.
Posted by Turbeauxdog
Member since Aug 2004
24273 posts
Posted on 1/21/26 at 3:01 pm to
quote:

don't care what the legislators intended. I care what the fair meaning of [a] word is


Which when they differ implies the legislators are illiterate?

Or do judges fabricate the fair meaning of words to meet their desired outcome? (Hint: they do)
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476616 posts
Posted on 1/21/26 at 3:02 pm to
quote:

And I'm telling you that "muh textualism" is a red herring.

Only in the Trump era would something like this be uttered by a person who perceived themselves to be a non-Leftist

Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476616 posts
Posted on 1/21/26 at 3:04 pm to
quote:

Call me someone who believes in "living documents", but there was no way anyone could have forseen how that decision is being abused today. Immigration was much different then than it is today.


This is why we have amendments.

This living document nonsense works even better with the 2A and guns than with WKA and the 14th.

The authors of the 2nd Amendment only had muskets and various views of what being in a militia mean, today, would lead to bad rulings.
Posted by Turbeauxdog
Member since Aug 2004
24273 posts
Posted on 1/21/26 at 3:04 pm to
quote:

Textualism is not speculation.


Of course it is.

quote:

It's reading the words and applying the meaning of those words.


And when has determining the meaning of words not had some level of speculation?

You're flailing here again friend.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476616 posts
Posted on 1/21/26 at 3:04 pm to
quote:

You're flailing


naw
Posted by Turbeauxdog
Member since Aug 2004
24273 posts
Posted on 1/21/26 at 3:05 pm to
quote:

This is why we have amendments.


We don't need amendments to correct terrible jurisprudence
Posted by Turbeauxdog
Member since Aug 2004
24273 posts
Posted on 1/21/26 at 3:07 pm to
quote:

naw


I'm being generous honestly
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476616 posts
Posted on 1/21/26 at 3:11 pm to
quote:

We don't need amendments to correct terrible jurisprudence

That was specifically not what he argued.

Here I'll quote him for you

quote:

Decision was correct at the time.
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
140573 posts
Posted on 1/21/26 at 3:12 pm to
Posted by Champagne
Sabine Free State.
Member since Oct 2007
55265 posts
Posted on 1/21/26 at 3:13 pm to
quote:

Legislators are often terrible at writing legislation.


Yes we often see bad writing when it comes to legislation and the like, I agree. As such, since we agree on this, it strikes me as Illogical that we would completely rely on Textualism and ignore Legislative History, in general and especially in this case.

It seems logical to me in this case to take the Legislative History on its face and accept it as the underlying Reason why these folks wrote this Amendment and put it up for Ratification.

Now, I understand that Bearded Evil Spock would like to convince me otherwise but, Bearded Evil Spock is being Illogical here and he does not persuade me.
Posted by Turbeauxdog
Member since Aug 2004
24273 posts
Posted on 1/21/26 at 3:16 pm to
quote:

This ruling is going to be a test to see whether Clarence Thomas rejects his textual roots and adopts the living document method. That is the preferred method of leftists.


Or he could say the textual analysis was incorrect.

You really have a problem with that concept
Posted by dblwall
Member since Jul 2017
1638 posts
Posted on 1/21/26 at 3:18 pm to
Can we get rid of Kash?
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