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re: Biggest split in modern Orthodox history

Posted on 10/23/18 at 8:52 am to
Posted by BlackAdam
Member since Jan 2016
7050 posts
Posted on 10/23/18 at 8:52 am to
quote:


Dude, have you ever read some of the reasons for the Reformation? People gave money to the church because priests told them it would give them atonement before the Reformation.


some priests may have said that, but it was never a teaching of the Catholic Church.
Posted by bamafan1001
Member since Jun 2011
15783 posts
Posted on 10/23/18 at 9:15 am to
quote:

what the heck is this? there isn't "one true church." protestants are heretics? why? protestants can't be saved? why?




They cant point to any scripture to support this. Protestants, on the other hand, have plenty of scripture to point to, including Jesus' own words.
Posted by AUveritas
Member since Aug 2013
3583 posts
Posted on 10/23/18 at 6:39 pm to
quote:

so you don't understand james. that's all you had to say. that is NOT what james is saying. would you like for me to introduce you to some commentaries that can correct your misconception? 


He says what he says. No mental gymnastics required on this end. Also, commentaries? Who's? I'll stick with Patristic sources. Also, that's not Sola Scriptura.

quote:

which is preceded by saving faith and of course you would know that if you had studied james properly, such as james 2:23. 

ftr, you are taking james at his word and are out serving the community, ministering to those who are hurting, giving of your time, you money, right? 


Want to know the only place in the Bible that mentions Faith Alone? Yep: James 2:24 where it says we're not saved by faith alone.

quote:

holy cow you are deluded. have you ever heard of the rylands papyrus (p52)? do you know the significance of 1 cor 15:3-4? 


Sure. I also know many Churches thought the Epistles of Clement and The Shepherd of Hermas were Scripture.

quote:

jesus treated scripture as the true, infallible word of god. but you knew that already didn't you? 


Sure. He and the writers of the NT quoted from the Septuagint often. This begs the question of why did Protestants then decide to use the Masoratic texts instead.

quote:

the bible itself. the patristics. 

listen, you and your assertions are precisely the kind of thing that causes many people to reject christianity, like david kinnamon wrote about in unchristian. i know you don't see that right now because you are indoctrinated. i'm trying to help you break out of that and see what is going on in the real world of christianity, not the institutionalized, bastardized version of it. you don't even know the history of the reformation. you have been inculcated with some nonsense whitewashed version of it. you know just enough to be dangerous 

you are hurting the kingdom. please stop.





The Patristic writings were a huge factor leading me from Protestantism. I spent the first 35 years of my life as Protestant. Sorry but truth is truth. I wont stop sharing it.





Posted by Gus007
TN
Member since Jul 2018
14152 posts
Posted on 10/23/18 at 7:35 pm to
quote:

Wrong. The Catholic Church was the bad guys. Jesus was a baptist




Wrong. Jesus is the savior, not any church.
John 3:16
I've read the Bible several times. I don't remember seeing the pope is even mentioned and certainly not the gate keeper to heaven.
Posted by Ralph_Wiggum
Sugarland
Member since Jul 2005
11025 posts
Posted on 10/23/18 at 7:41 pm to
quote:

When you are descending into the fires of Hell, you won't be thanking the Protestants of 1517. They have damned your soul for eternity and it's not even your fault. There is still time and I would encourage you to use that time to embrace the one, true Church rather than remain a heretic and apostate.



Cool that you and I agree on something.
Posted by Ralph_Wiggum
Sugarland
Member since Jul 2005
11025 posts
Posted on 10/23/18 at 7:45 pm to
Lutherans are goofy. Why Baptists and other Protestants see him as some kind of hero is beyond me. He just wanted to get laid more often and not feel guilty about it.
Posted by Slippy
Across the rivah
Member since Aug 2005
7459 posts
Posted on 10/23/18 at 7:47 pm to
Has the Latvian Orthodox Church taken a position on this yet?
Posted by OleWar
Troy H. Middleton Library
Member since Mar 2008
5828 posts
Posted on 10/23/18 at 9:15 pm to
They are subordinate to the Russian Orthodox Church. Are you interested in conversion?
Posted by CrimsonTideMD
Member since Dec 2010
7113 posts
Posted on 10/23/18 at 9:43 pm to
quote:

He just wanted to get laid more often and not feel guilty about it


Ummm, you have made the sex before in woman, yes?

Is very niiiiiiiiiiice!!!!!
Posted by Swain
Member since Aug 2016
404 posts
Posted on 10/23/18 at 10:02 pm to
Too busy trying to cure the kavorka.
Posted by bfniii
Member since Nov 2005
17840 posts
Posted on 10/23/18 at 10:26 pm to
quote:

bayoubengals88
you quoted my comment but replied to someone else. what i posted is commonly acknowledged history on the matter. check any textbook. i can refer you to plenty
Posted by bfniii
Member since Nov 2005
17840 posts
Posted on 10/23/18 at 10:40 pm to
quote:

IOW, you don't have one
my word

literally, page 1

"The dissolution is such, that the souls entrusted to the clergy receive great damage, for we are told that the majority of the clergy are living in open concubinage, and that if our justice intervenes in order to punish them, they revolt and create a scandal, and that they despise our justice to the point that they arm themselves against it."

Isabella of Castille (1451-1504), on November 20, 1500.

"...it was clear that the church was in need of profound reformation, and that many longed for it. The decline and corruption of the papacy was well known."

"Through war, intrigue, bribery and licentiousness, these popes sought to restore and even to outdo the glories of ancient Rome."

did you know that at one point, the church had a standing army? now why would they need that?

"Such corrupt leadership set the tone for most of the lesser clergy and the monastics. While clerical celibacy was the law of the church, there were many who broke it openly; and bishops and local priests alike - and even some popes - flaunted their illegitimate children. The ancient monastic discipline was increasingly relaxed as convents and monasteries became centers of leisurely living. Monarchs and the high nobility often provided for their illegitimate offspring by having them named abbots and abbesses, with no regard for their monastic vocation or lack of it."

So, that was a primary source and a secondary source. your welcome
Posted by bfniii
Member since Nov 2005
17840 posts
Posted on 10/23/18 at 10:47 pm to
quote:

That’s not how it works


ah, the age old cry of the weak. "i can't prove my point so i'm going to hide behind an artificial burden of proof." atheism is not the default position and any clued up person knows this because it has been repeatedly pointed out in debates and books.

quote:

The burden of proof lies with the person making the affirmative claim
link? this is not a court of law nor is it even a formal debate with previously agreed to constrictions

quote:

which only one of us is doing
wrong. you are making the affirmative claim that something else is the case. i get that you don't want to defend that because you can't. no person can.

quote:

I’m simply claiming that without extraordinary evidence for your extraordinary claim
prove that it's extraordinary. it's just a claim. man up and prove that it's wrong.

quote:

Your job is to provide the extraordinary evidence to dispute what is effectively the null hypothesis
listen, these bush league tactics aren't going to work on me because i have seen them get destroyed over and over again in high level, high profile debates. these are approaches used by ignorant amateurs.
Posted by bfniii
Member since Nov 2005
17840 posts
Posted on 10/23/18 at 10:49 pm to
quote:

it was never a teaching of the Catholic Church
then why did they fight the reformers? i have already asked this question and did not get an answer.

if what you're saying is true, then they would have realized the error of their ways, agreed with the reformers and purged the offenders. there would be no protestant church

they may not have "taught" it but they certainly thought it was justified under catholic auspices
Posted by biglego
San Francisco
Member since Nov 2007
83178 posts
Posted on 10/23/18 at 10:50 pm to
quote:

Paul apparently was a liar according to Catholics. Apparently Jesus’ sacrifice wasn’t enough, we can earn salvation


James was a liar according to Protestants. Apparently Jesus’ sacrifice alone was enough, and we can earn salvation simply by believing and how we live and treat others is irrelevant.
Posted by biglego
San Francisco
Member since Nov 2007
83178 posts
Posted on 10/23/18 at 10:53 pm to
quote:

Jesus said He would judge us by how we cared for the poor and hungry. N


Yeah but Protestants say Jesus was full of shite
Posted by awestruck
Member since Jan 2015
13333 posts
Posted on 10/23/18 at 10:53 pm to
quote:

These threads are always fascinating as a third party observer.

The conviction with which highly educated, intelligent adults argue over complete nonsense is amazing.
(If so then you may be the only one who'll appreciate this. . .) Watch what happens when you suggest Protestants are still essentially Catholic if they deify Jesus.

It's by far the greatest schism in canonical history (the other guy was wrong about 1517). And essentially renders all religions following Constantine and the Bishop of Rome's formulae as nearly one and the same on the very most important aspect of Christian theology. The Reformation was really only about where the power of a man's church would reside. Yes, there was some soul searching, but it stopped far short of making these Johnny come lately' really less Catholic. The trinity is the calling card of Catholicism and along with it's moved Sabbath day illustrates how Protestantism failed to really reject Satan's biggest coup. He got two (if not three) of the commandments with a one two punch and these guys have never recovered.

. . you're right it's fascinating (and amusing) to watch them claiming the high road over one another.
Posted by 25smeckles
Lafayette
Member since Sep 2017
415 posts
Posted on 10/23/18 at 11:00 pm to
if you really think we think that then you are really the ignorant one
Posted by biglego
San Francisco
Member since Nov 2007
83178 posts
Posted on 10/23/18 at 11:00 pm to
quote:

you're right it's fascinating (and amusing) to watch them claiming the high road over one another.


There’s nothing amusing about watching Protestants doom themselves to the fires of Hell.
Posted by 25smeckles
Lafayette
Member since Sep 2017
415 posts
Posted on 10/23/18 at 11:04 pm to
Christ founded one church and it’s not the one in the prot’s head

but muh institutions muh catholic is the only argument they have
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