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Started By
Message
re: Bernie Sanders says that "health care is a basic human right"
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:26 pm to LSUconvert
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:26 pm to LSUconvert
quote:
The 6th amendment disagrees.
Nah. Not really.
If zero people consented to be PDs, the 6 Amendment couldn't do jack shite to solve it.
1
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:26 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
And you don't.
The 6th amendment disagrees.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:27 pm to LSUconvert
quote:
The 6th amendment disagrees.
False, I've already addressed this earlier.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:27 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
If zero people consented to be PDs, the 6 Amendment couldn't do jack shite to solve it.
Words on paper don't usually. The 2nd amendment wouldn't do shite to solve people taking your guns.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:28 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:I didn't really note this either.
As you noted, everyone has a “right” to emergency medical services to save their life.
If you live way out in the sticks, your "right" to emergency services is FAR less than mine. And, the govt isn't remotely obligated to go throw up an ER near you.
That's the silliness of the concept of calling it a "right".
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:28 pm to LSUconvert
quote:
Words on paper don't usually. The 2nd amendment wouldn't do shite to solve people taking your guns.
Wow. You're flailing.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:30 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Wow. You're flailing.
You just got a kick out of saying words on paper don't solve problems. Not sure what you're talking about.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:31 pm to LSUconvert
quote:
Words on paper don't usually. The 2nd amendment wouldn't do shite to solve people taking your guns.
It's sad that you don't understand that the reason the 6th exists is because your situation under the 6th was precipitated by the govt.
Yet, nope. It still doesn't actually give a RIGHT to someone's labor. If the govt can't find anyone to be a PD and one is literally not available, the govt simply is fricked. Not YOU.
THAT is what the 6th does. So, still, doesn't let the govt go FORCE the unwilling to defend you.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:32 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
False, I've already addressed this earlier.
Help a brother out. Gimme a quick copy paste so I don't have to look through 9 pages.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:32 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
I didn't really note this either.
If you live way out in the sticks, your "right" to emergency services is FAR less than mine. And, the govt isn't remotely obligated to go throw up an ER near you.
That's the silliness of the concept of calling it a "right".
I used quotes to call it a “right” just like you did. It’s inconsequential what you call it, exactly. And it makes no difference to the more practical issues: people have a right/access/whatever to free medicine in the form of emergency, life sustaining interventions. Who pays for that? Should we continue to do so, or abandon this practice? Where do we draw the line in the sand bw what’s emergent and what isn’t?
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:33 pm to LSUconvert
quote:NOTHING in the 6th allows the govt to go FORCE someone who hasn't chosen to be available...……..to be a public defender.
You just got a kick out of saying words on paper don't solve problems. Not sure what you're talking about.
Hence, if none actually ARE available, the 6th does NOT create a "right" to anyone's labor. The govt STILL can't go force someone who is unwilling.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:34 pm to L.A.
Healthcare is a service. You do not have the right to someone else's labor.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:34 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
I used quotes to call it a “right” just like you did. It’s inconsequential what you call it, exactly. And it makes no difference to the more practical issues: people have a right/access/whatever to free medicine in the form of emergency, life sustaining interventions. Who pays for that? Should we continue to do so, or abandon this practice? Where do we draw the line in the sand bw what’s emergent and what isn’t?
I'm totally fine with discussing how much free shite to hand out...……..that's a time honored discussion.
But, calling it a right is stupid from the get go.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:35 pm to fallguy_1978
quote:
You do not have the right to someone else's labor.
The 6th amendment disagrees with you.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:36 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
You think getting into a car accident, having multiple surgeries and spending time in the ICU is cheap?
Nope. Not sure how this relates to your prior post. I’m very well versed in the cost of treatment modalities in the ICU. Specifically IABP, CRRT and ECMO.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:38 pm to LSUconvert
quote:
Gimme a quick copy paste so I don't have to look through 9 pages.
LINK
The 6th Amendment right is that the government can't criminally prosecute you without the assistance of counsel.
So, either it gets you counsel, or drops the prosecution. It has 2 ways to preserve your rights.
This post was edited on 2/16/20 at 2:28 pm
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:39 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
I'm totally fine with discussing how much free shite to hand out...……..that's a time honored discussion.
But, calling it a right is stupid from the get go.
I don’t disagree. I just think an even more time honored tradition is to debate these philosophical points on here that may pass the time nicely, but doesn’t really accomplish anything practical.
I’m biased, but I think debating what should be our medical floor, taxpayer to taxpayer, is far more interesting and stimulating of a convo. No one ever wants to have it though
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:42 pm to LSURN98
quote:
Nope. Not sure how this relates to your prior post.
It’s not complicated. On one side you have the “bare minimum” in a legal sense: PDs, who for a myriad of reasons are cheaper than some fancy law firm.
On the other side, your “bare minimum” in a medical sense could be multiple times more expensive than any elective care that as a society we deem as not “bare minimum.”
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:51 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
On the other side, your “bare minimum” in a medical sense could be multiple times more expensive than any elective care that as a society we deem as not “bare minimum.”
Guess that depends on your definition of “bare minimum”
Keeping someone alive? Because your idea of “living” and mine are likely very different. There are, unfortunately no easy answers.
The same idea can transcend into “elective” care as well
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:55 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Hence, if none actually ARE available, the 6th does NOT create a "right" to anyone's labor. The govt STILL can't go force someone who is unwilling.
This is correct. The government simply can’t convict you of a crime that would send you to prison until such time as if finds someone willing to allow you to exercise your right to counsel. The “right” here is quite limited to specific circumstances and not really analogous at all. The attempt to do so is quite simplistic. For example, nobody would ever advocate or even consider federalizing ALL legal work.
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