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re: Bernie Sanders says that "health care is a basic human right"
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:02 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:02 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
It's a good argument.
I just pointed out that's it's not?
You have rights in this country that require other people's labor. That is a fact.
1
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:03 pm to LSUconvert
quote:Actually, it's a great and on point argument and your point doesn't counter it.
Maybe you missed why I brought it up, but the claim was that your right cannot be to someone else's labor. I was pointing out that it's a terrible argument, as I'm sure you'd agree.
Unless, of course, you think that when people say they have a "right" to health care, they mean the same comparable level difference as what one might get from a public defender versus what Bill Gates might get when he goes to Johns Hopkins.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:04 pm to LSUconvert
quote:Not really.
I just pointed out that's it's not?
We can't hold your hand out of your simple mindedness. You'll have to do that for yourself.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:04 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Actually, it's a great and on point argument and your point doesn't counter it.
So there is no labor involved in a trial?
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:06 pm to LSUconvert
quote:Yep
So there is no labor involved in a trial?
Alas, this goes to the point I keep making regarding what we are arguing one has RIGHT to.
Because, applying your point, everyone ALREADY has a "right" to free health care.
Homeless and go to the ER with a broken leg. They're gonna cast you up. frick up with the courts and can't afford a lawyer? We'll basically do the same.
Oh, but you want a GOOD lawyer(or a doctor with a given specialty)? Yeah. That's gonna cost you. And nope, you don't have a RIGHT to either.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:12 pm to LSUconvert
quote:
So there is no labor involved in a trial?
I should add that the court can't just go grab ANY attorney to do the job.
Those that are doing the job are people who have CHOSEN to be available to do it. (in other words, they took the job)
And, if you don't like the job that PD is doing...……..oh well.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:13 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
So there is no labor involved in a trial?
Yep
Are you answering affirmatively to my question?
quote:
Because, applying your point, everyone ALREADY has a "right" to free health care.
Homeless and go to the ER with a broken leg. They're gonna cast you up. frick up with the courts and can't afford a lawyer? We'll basically do the same.
Those are not the same thing. Just saying "basically" does not mean that the two situation are the same in this context.
Who pays the public defender? Who pays the Dr for their labor in your scenario?
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:14 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Those that are doing the job are people who have CHOSEN to be available to do it. (in other words, they took the job)
Do you think the plan is to cage Drs up and force them under penalty of torture to do their work?
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:17 pm to LSUconvert
quote:
Do you think the plan is to cage Drs up and force them under penalty of torture to do their work?
Do you think that they're going to let like 99% of all doctors opt out?
Nice try dude. Not very good, but, you had to try.
No one arguing for the "right" to health care is arguing for a right to only a few barely qualified doctors in any given community willing to help out. Sheesh.
As pointed out. We ALREADY have a comparable "right to health care" as we have for public defenders. This thread wouldn't exist and you wouldn't be in here full of shite if that was what you wanted.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:19 pm to LSUconvert
quote:
Those are not the same thing. Just saying "basically" does not mean that the two situation are the same in this context. Who pays the public defender? Who pays the Dr for their labor in your scenario?
They're pretty much exactly the same thing. You get minimal care, or minimal legal services on the govt's dime from people who have CHOSEN a line of work that requires it.
Go back to bed. Your line of attack has failed.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:19 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Do you think that they're going to let like 99% of all doctors opt out?
Opt out of what exactly?
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:21 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
No one arguing for the "right" to health care is arguing for a right to only a few barely qualified doctors in any given community willing to help out. Sheesh.
I'm not even arguing for the right to have healthcare. You're not even paying attention.
I'm arguing the assertion that you cannot have a right to other people's labor. We all do, and you've pointed out how. We have the RIGHT to have a qualified lawyer on our behalf, as well tons of other labor that is required to ensure a fair trial.
That's all.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:22 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:REad the thread man. It ain't complicated.
Opt out of what exactly?
He's comparing the "right" to a public defender to the "right" to health care.
I pointed out that you ALREADY have that level of "right" in terms of health care. People don't just want that level.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:22 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
They're pretty much exactly the same thing. You get minimal care, or minimal legal services on the govt's dime from people who have CHOSEN a line of work that requires it.
Yes, but minimum/necessary in both contexts do not necessarily equate to “cheaper” or “lesser quality.”
The similarity is that we (tax payers) foot the bill. People can bitch and moan about it, but I’ve yet to hear an ideal solution to this complex problem.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:24 pm to LSUconvert
quote:
We all do, and you've pointed out how.
Close, but not quite.
That lawyer still must consent and cooperate.
True rights do not rely on the consent and cooperation of others.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:25 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
REad the thread man. It ain't complicated.
He's comparing the "right" to a public defender to the "right" to health care.
I pointed out that you ALREADY have that level of "right" in terms of health care. People don't just want th
I understand fully. The question, like I’ve stated multiple times, isn’t an ideological binary, but a matter of degree. As you noted, everyone has a “right” to emergency medical services to save their life. I’d venture and say most people do not agree people have a right to a boob job. So between these two scenarios, where is the inflection point?
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:25 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
Yes, but minimum/necessary in both contexts do not necessarily equate to “cheaper” or “lesser quality.”
You serious, Clark?
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:25 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
True rights do not rely on the consent and cooperation of others.
The 6th amendment disagrees.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:25 pm to LSUconvert
quote:And you don't. EVERYONE that the courts reached out to as a PD is someone who chose to be available.
I'm arguing the assertion that you cannot have a right to other people's labor.
Saying that = a "right" to their labor is like saying my current employer has a "right" to my labor.
Which, of course, they don't.
quote:LOL. I guess if one uses the word qualified VERY loosely.
We have the RIGHT to have a qualified lawyer on our behalf,
In any case. Go read a bit about places where there's like one PD in an entire district handling hundreds of cases and talk to me about this "right".
It's cute that you think this "right" actually exists in any meaningful manner.
It literally CANNOT exist in any meaningful manner no matter how many times its declared precisely because no, you can't actually kidnap some unwilling party to take the case.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 12:26 pm to LSURN98
You think getting into a car accident, having multiple surgeries and spending time in the ICU is cheap?
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