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Started By
Message
re: Bernie Sanders says that "health care is a basic human right"
Posted on 2/16/20 at 9:29 am to Kennerkarl
Posted on 2/16/20 at 9:29 am to Kennerkarl
quote:
Not a Bernie supporter but I think poor people should be able to get medical treatment when they are ill so I guess for the sake of argument I fall into the category.
And they can, and they do. So what exactly are you advocating for? They already get healthcare, and for free.
What everyone here fails to realize (especially those that support socialized medicine) is that the problems with healthcare now (quality, cost, etc) is a direct result of government involvement in healthcare, not a lack thereof, and amazingly, they want more of it. It is really quite baffling.
This post was edited on 2/16/20 at 9:31 am
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Posted on 2/16/20 at 9:38 am to Kennerkarl
quote:Perhaps you've not heard of Medicaid?
I think poor people should be able to get medical treatment when they are ill
quote:Incorrect. ERISA ensures it as a right.
It’s not a right currently, he obviously knows that
ERISA is not all encompassing, but it is the law ..... currently.
M4A goes leagues beyond ERISA.
In this discussion, a comparison with 6th A legal assurances has been erroneously drawn with M4A.
As stated earlier, when the 6th Amendment entitles one to access David Boies' services for free in defense of a civil suit, let us know. Because at that point we may have an apples-to-apples comparison to M4A. Until then, we have no such thing.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 10:18 am to LSURN98
quote:
The only way we will improve quality and price is by transitioning to a true free market model of healthcare. Proof?
LASIK, a procedure not covered by insurance has increased in quality dramatically and dropped in costs by almost 80%, despite the cost of the laser needed to perform the surgery remaining stable. Competition works people.
Plastic Surgery (elective) has improved in quality yet prices have remained stable or decreased.
Not sure what you are arguing here. There’s not many medical treatments/surgical procedures that haven’t improved in quality when compared to their inception.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 10:21 am to pecanridge
quote:
The difference here is that there are legal professionals who choose to be public defenders to take on these cases. As a medical professional, you really don’t get to choose who you cover in the middle of the night going to surgery. You can’t say I won’t do surgery on this person who can’t afford it, send them to the public defender(in this case public surgeon). Basically you do the case for free( since >50% of on call cases are illegal aliens at this point), whereas the public defender who chooses that role at least knows he will be paid.
This is a gross mischaracterization and mostly just flat out untrue.
Doctors have a lot of choice. You can choose what type of physician you want to be. You can choose whether this involved emergency services or not. You can choose what type of setting you want to practice in. You have a lot of choice here, and like many other professions, the better you are, the more power you have to be more selective.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 10:25 am to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
Not sure what you are arguing here. There’s not many medical treatments/surgical procedures that haven’t improved in quality when compared to their inception.
Price. I’m arguing for a free market, like I said in the post, thought that was obvious. How many have gotten dramatically cheaper? Not many.
This post was edited on 2/16/20 at 10:30 am
Posted on 2/16/20 at 10:26 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Surgery Center of Oklahoma
Very interesting model and I think we will see more of this going forward as people have to start working within the margins of bundled payments.
But as far as quality goes.....I don’t know many people with money and means who are flying to Oklahoma to get their hip replaced instead of Mayo, Rothman, Special Surgery, NYU, etc etc
Posted on 2/16/20 at 10:29 am to LSURN98
quote:
PRICE ?
Understood. Most every procedure in my field is leagues better than what it is now and cheaper/available to more people.
Your arguing that only things like boob jobs have advanced without a concomitant increase in price for it?
Posted on 2/16/20 at 10:30 am to onmymedicalgrind
quote:No we aren’t. If “we” were... “we” wouldn’t need the government to take other people money by threading to put them in jail.
At the end of the day, we (Americans as a whole) are willing to pay for other people to get medical treatment without them ever demonstrating their ability to pay for it themselves.
What “we” are willing to do is have “other people” pay for it via their taxes. Notice all of these proposal come along with taxes “on the rich” not taxes on the “middle class“ to pay for it.
Using “someone else’s“ wallet isn’t charity, generosity, nor willingness to pay. It’s will to use the government to force “someone else” to pay.
That's authoritarianism.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 10:32 am to LSUconvert
quote:Nope. if that were the case the government owes every citizen a gun, a church and a printing press.
You and I both have rights outlined in the constitution that require labor from another person.
The only right you have the government must pay for is an attorney.
This post was edited on 2/16/20 at 10:33 am
Posted on 2/16/20 at 10:33 am to onmymedicalgrind
Nope. I’m arguing that cash industries within healthcare have seen dramatically better results at much lower prices.
Now give specific examples of all these things within healthcare that are Medicare/Medicaid based that have gotten better and cheaper. Will be waiting.....
Now give specific examples of all these things within healthcare that are Medicare/Medicaid based that have gotten better and cheaper. Will be waiting.....
Posted on 2/16/20 at 10:37 am to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
Doctors have a lot of choice. You can choose what type of physician you want to be. You can choose whether this involved emergency services or not. You can choose what type of setting you want to practice in. You have a lot of choice here, and like many other professions, the better you are, the more power you have to be more selective.
And a doctors choice has continued to dwindle dramatically. Private clinics have basically disappeared, forced into death by large scale health systems. So if by choice you mean working for a large hospital system I guess you are correct.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 10:40 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
The only right you have the government must pay for is an attorney.
IF they can find one.
And if they can't (which hasn't ever happened, yet), then they must drop the criminal prosecution.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 10:40 am to LSURN98
quote:
Now give specific examples of all these things within healthcare that are Medicare/Medicaid based that have gotten better and cheaper. Will be waiting.....
Hip and knee arthroplasty for starters.
And I’m not arguing it’s because of Medicare. Just arguing that the natural course medical procedures is to improve over time with regards to bang for your buck. It’s not exclusive to lasik and boob jobs.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 10:41 am to LSURN98
quote:If you really want a good example —psychiatry. Cash pay you get an appointment in a couple of weeks. Medicaid... forget it.
Nope. I’m arguing that cash industries within healthcare have seen dramatically better results at much lower prices.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 10:41 am to Kennerkarl
quote:
I think poor people should be able to get medical treatment when they are ill
There's a specific program for poor people to get medical care. It exists, you may be the only person who's never heard of it.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 10:43 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
There's a specific program for poor people to get medical care. It exists, you may be the only person who's never heard of it.
The problem most people have with Medicaid... is Medicaid forces you to spend your money first. Thst isn’t what people want. they want “gold class” treatment and keep their money.
The problem here is... if you don’t care enough about your own health to spend your money, why should you get to spend other people’s money for it?
This post was edited on 2/16/20 at 10:44 am
Posted on 2/16/20 at 10:46 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
Thst isn’t what people want. they want “gold class” treatment and keep their money.
The entitlement mentality. Unfortunately it's epidemic.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 10:47 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
No we aren’t. If “we” were... “we” wouldn’t need the government to take other people money by threading to put them in jail.
What “we” are willing to do is have “other people” pay for it via their taxes. Notice all of these proposal come along with taxes “on the rich” not taxes on the “middle class“ to pay for it.
Using “someone else’s“ wallet isn’t charity, generosity, nor willingness to pay. It’s will to use the government to force “someone else” to pay.
That's authoritarianism.
This is more of the ideological argument I’m not getting into.
Practically speaking, tax-paying Americans are in favor of providing emergency medical treatment to those regardless of their immediate ability to demonstrate they have the means to pay. Knowing they will foot the bill. Let’s now move on and discuss shades of grey.
Posted on 2/16/20 at 10:48 am to Geekboy
quote:
Geekboy
What a loser
Posted on 2/16/20 at 10:49 am to LSURN98
quote:
And a doctors choice has continued to dwindle dramatically. Private clinics have basically disappeared, forced into death by large scale health systems. So if by choice you mean working for a large hospital system I guess you are correct.
Again, depends on your field, depends on you ability, depends on how much “power” you have. I mean it can be a cut throat world, no doubt. But there’s are still physicians making a killing takin cash only who have proven their value.
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