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Message
re: AP headline: Sessions cites Bible to defend separating immigrant families
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:07 am to GetCocky11
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:07 am to GetCocky11
quote:
I believe there has been a good bit of fact checking out there that says there is no law that requires the separation of families who cross the border illegally during legal proceedings.
I never said there was a law requiring such.
There is also no law that requires children to remain with their parent(s) when caught crossing the border illegally.
I also kids are often separated from parent(s) during legal proceedings when the parent(s) have broken the law.
It is not, in fact, a human rights violation. Particularly in this instance where the USA has no way of determining if said children are indeed offspring of said lawbreaking adults. We have no way of knowing that--you could have a hostage situation, sex trafficking, any number of possible scenarios.
Can't just show up at the border all la di da, cross it illegally, get caught doing so, and then cry human rights violation when kids are separated during legal proceedings.
To be clear, I'm not blaming the border crossers themselves necessarily. They're taking a calculated risk given that we've done a piss poor job of enforcing immigration law along our own borders. That said, if and when they are apprehended, they are then subject to our lawful proceedings.
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Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:10 am to FooManChoo
quote:
While it's a sad situation to separate children from parents, it happens all the time here by design. Whether it is parents going to prison or children being taken away due to abuse or neglect, it's very common.
This.
quote:
I place blame on the parents, not the government, when families cross the border illegally and then are separated. The parents should know better and should do whatever they can follow the legal requirements of entering this country.
Yes, I agree the parents are ultimately culpable. I don't blame them for choosing perhaps the lesser of two evils between remaining in an untenable situation back home or risking crossing illegally. The USA's absolute spinelessness in enforcing our own immigration laws invites such flaunting.
That said (and like you said), when a just law is broken, there is a consequence for it. A consequence that is well-known.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:18 am to LSUFanHouston
Actually what we need is not an open border. Let them seek asylum on one of the other 200 some odd countries in the world. A perfect fit (culturally and religiously) for people from Mexico or Central America who want to come to the United States is actually any country in South America (sans Brazil) or Spain. They share the same language, religion, culture and beliefs. They would be able to assimilate immediately. Why not go to one of those 12 countries and seek asylum?
I will let you guess why they don't there are several reasons but the main one being they don't allow people to simply show up.
I will let you guess why they don't there are several reasons but the main one being they don't allow people to simply show up.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:20 am to GetCocky11
quote:
I mean, regardless of the use of the word "rip", the separations are still happening.
Our court system rips American citizens families apart on a daily basis. Where is the outrage?
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:25 am to WillieNelsonsDoobie
quote:
trying to escape gangs and rapings and make a better life for their family
You realize there are more gangs in America than where these people are coming from? Why would they come here to escape gangs when there are more here? Another pathetic lie and excuse that isn't True.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:31 am to Jake_LaMotta
quote:
Our court system rips American citizens families apart on a daily basis. Where is the outrage?
That is wrong, too. But I'm not going to "whataboutism".
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:34 am to GetCocky11
quote:
That is wrong, too. But I'm not going to "whataboutism".
So it is ok to rip legal American citizens families apart oftentimes over nonviolent crimes and offenses but when it is done to Illegal Immigrants it is just horrible? What kind of fricking logic is that? We owe Illegal Immigrants nothing. nada. zilch. zero. We owe our own citizens more.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:36 am to Jake_LaMotta
quote:
So it is ok to rip legal American citizens families apart oftentimes over nonviolent crimes and offenses but when it is done to Illegal Immigrants it is just horrible? What kind of fricking logic is that?
Where did I say that?
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:38 am to Jake_LaMotta
quote:
You realize there are more gangs in America than where these people are coming from?
To be fair, the gangs here don't behead you and hang your corpse from bridges in the middle of town. They mostly just kill each other over turf and drugs.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:39 am to GetCocky11
you mentioned whataboutism. Comparing the situation of legal American citizens to Illegal Immigrants is not logical fallacy. It is a Fact. So, it isn't 'whataboutism'.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:41 am to GetCocky11
quote:check out the July 2017 ruling by the 9th circuit court on the Flores Settlement Agreement
I believe there has been a good bit of fact checking out there that says there is no law that requires the separation of families who cross the border illegally during legal proceedings.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:42 am to HogX
quote:
To be fair, the gangs here don't behead you and hang your corpse from bridges in the middle of town. They mostly just kill each other over turf and drugs
MS-13 does that. They are here. Along with 33,000 different gangs that are composed of over 1.4 million people. So, let me ask you again if you are trying to get away from gangs why in the hell are you going to a place that has 1.4 million people who are part of gangs and more than 33,000 active gangs in the United States?
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:43 am to Jake_LaMotta
quote:
you mentioned whataboutism. Comparing the situation of legal American citizens to Illegal Immigrants is not logical fallacy. It is a Fact. So, it isn't 'whataboutism'.
The funny part about your argument is that you're saying "hey, it is ok for the US government to be shitty to immigrant families because the US government is shitty to American families".
This post was edited on 6/15/18 at 10:44 am
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:47 am to Jake_LaMotta
quote:
MS-13 does that. They are here. Along with 33,000 different gangs that are composed of over 1.4 million people. So, let me ask you again if you are trying to get away from gangs why in the hell are you going to a place that has 1.4 million people who are part of gangs and more than 33,000 active gangs in the United States?
Get back to me when they are able to freely murder and terrorize local governments and towns in the US with little push back from local authorities. There may be more gang members here, but they don't run the country like Mexico. I mean, there was an international report recently ranking Mexico the second most dangerous country in the world right after Syria. Raw numbers are easy to look at, but are useless in practice.
LINK
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:47 am to GetCocky11
quote:
The funny part about your argument is that you're saying "hey, it is ok for the US government to be shitty to immigrant families because the US government is shitty to American families".
Um that isn't what I am saying. I am saying we owe our own people more than that. We don't owe Illegal Immigrants shite. You want me to be saying what you said though. If they don't want to be separated then don't come here. It is a simple solution. They have to go back. Sorry.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:51 am to HogX
quote:
Get back to me when they are able to freely murder and terrorize local governments and towns in the US with little push back from local authorities.
There was no initiative to curb gangs for the past 16 years. None. This just recently became an issue with the current Administration who want to actually do something about it. If you are wanting to "get away" from gangs the last place you would want to come is America. It is all bullshite. They are here because they will get government handouts, a drivers license, jobs, free education for their kids, free healthcare from emergency rooms, etc. Just admit that and move on. They don't go anywhere else because other countries enforce their borders, enforce immigration, and enforce their laws. We try and do this and it becomes 'evil' all the sudden.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:53 am to Jake_LaMotta
quote:
If you are wanting to "get away" from gangs the last place you would want to come is America.
Wrong. That would be Mexico. People don't want to 'get away from gangs'. There's gangs most anywhere you go. It's more about how they're policed. They want to get away from 'being at risk of them and their families being senselessly murdered for being in the middle of a conflict between drug cartels'.
quote:
They are here because they will get government handouts, a drivers license, jobs, free education for their kids, free healthcare from emergency rooms, etc. Just admit that and move on.
Nah, but if that's what helps you sleep at night go right ahead.
This post was edited on 6/15/18 at 10:56 am
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:53 am to Toddy
quote:toddy trying to talk about right and wrong. Hilarious
Wow. So you don't think it's wrong to rip children from their parents? Innocent children I might add.
Posted on 6/15/18 at 10:54 am to L.A.
quote:
That may be true, but I don't think he's wrong here. Not wrong politically, morally, or Scripturally IMO.
Aw, bullshite. Of course he's wrong. The Scripture he's quoting is instructing Christians to obey the law. It absolutely is not saying that Christians in an official capacity who have the discretion to do so are required to enforce laws that are morally objectionable.
If Sessions can't grasp that, he really is the village idiot.
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