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re: An independent nation has THE RIGHT to sovereignty, AND to have their arse kicked
Posted on 3/5/22 at 12:50 pm to trinidadtiger
Posted on 3/5/22 at 12:50 pm to trinidadtiger
quote:
And you are obviously confused about right and wrong....this is the real world not some Disney version of what you would like it to be. If you did not heed his warnings then you get the consequences
What is morally right and what is morally wrong isn’t a relative thing. Invading a country starting a war and causing innocent people jobs homes and their lives is morally wrong. Ukraine did not join NATO. NATO did not allow them to join. Sounds like the warning was heeded. His “concern” was the encroachment of nato. Which would seem to be the “guilty” parties would be countries like Latvia etc. but once again. He’s too much of a pussy to go after them so he has to attack Ukraine. Typical for Russia considering they have enacted genocide against Ukrainians in the past.
1
Posted on 3/5/22 at 12:53 pm to Ag Zwin
NATO has always officially had an Open Door policy and individual countries and individual politicians have used it for perceived leverage, but Ukraine has rightly been used as a buffer zone specifically so a war is not started. And to absolve Putin for moral culpability because of this is ridiculous. Russia had absolutely ZERO chance of military invasion invasion from NATO prior to this. It’s an absurdity to let Putin off the hook for this invasion of a sovereign nation.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 1:00 pm to Adam Banks
quote:
What is morally right and what is morally wrong isn’t a relative thing. Invading a country starting a war and causing innocent people jobs homes and their lives is morally wrong. Ukraine did not join NATO. NATO did not allow them to join. Sounds like the warning was heeded. His “concern” was the encroachment of nato. Which would seem to be the “guilty” parties would be countries like Latvia etc. but once again. He’s too much of a pussy to go after them so he has to attack Ukraine. Typical for Russia considering they have enacted genocide against Ukrainians in the past.
"Morals" have nothing to do with this. The sooner people disabuse themselves that this is a factor when dealing with leaders like Putin, the better off we'll be. Realpolitik is a thing, and probably the ONLY thing in situations like this.
Ukraine was kept at arms' length for a long time. Then in 2014, they flirted with NATO. They lost area.
In 2021, the rhetoric took a clear escalation toward them joining. This is Putin not waiting for Article V to kick in, gambling that NATO would stand back and not risk escalation. He was right.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 1:03 pm to trinidadtiger
Let's take geopolitical advice from a guy that lives on an island full of reefer madness and machete killings.
Or originates from said island.
Or originates from said island.
This post was edited on 3/5/22 at 1:04 pm
Posted on 3/5/22 at 1:05 pm to trinidadtiger
quote:
Happened that way for 1000s of years. Dont start no shat and there wont be no shat. Putin called a red line and Ukraine and NATO kept itching and a scratching.
Oh yeah, I'm sure it has nothing to do with Putin wanting to retake Soviet lands, and that Russia has not been sending undercover agents to Ukraine for years now.
Can we stop sucking the dick of dictators please ?
This post was edited on 3/5/22 at 1:07 pm
Posted on 3/5/22 at 1:07 pm to Lsupimp
quote:
And to absolve Putin for moral culpability because of this is ridiculous. Russia had absolutely ZERO chance of military invasion invasion from NATO prior to this. It’s an absurdity to let Putin off the hook for this invasion of a sovereign nation.
It boggles my mind that people are unable to see the point being made.
I am not absolving Putin of anything anymore than I would absolve Hitler for WWII.
You're delusional, though, if you ignore that the seeds for Hitler were sowed (to a large degree) by the terms of Versailles.
You can't create the conditions for something bad happening AND claim you had no role in something bad happening.
As was said in another thread, there are analogies all over the place. I have the right to walk through a bad neighborhood with all kinds of cash sticking out of my pockets. If I am mugged and killed, the perps are absolutely guilty. It doesn't "absolve" them to say I should not have done that.
This post was edited on 3/5/22 at 1:14 pm
Posted on 3/5/22 at 1:10 pm to Ag Zwin
quote:
You can't create the conditions for something AND blame someone else when it goes wrong.
So you are literally trying to absolve Hitler's actions.
Hitler was a Socialist dictator, all socialist have tried to make their imperium. If you want ot blame someone, blame the stupid frenchs who thought off socialism, not the reparations Germany had to pay for loosing a war. Many countries had lost wars before and none of them created a Hitler.
quote:
As was said in another thread, there are analogies all over the place. I have the right to walk through a bad neighborhood with all kinds of cash sticking out of my pockets. If I am mugged and killed, the perps are absolutely guilty. It doesn't "absolve" them to say I should not have done that.
And If Putin wants to invade other countries these are his consequences. Can we celebrate that we are damaging a socialist dictator ?
This post was edited on 3/5/22 at 1:12 pm
Posted on 3/5/22 at 1:11 pm to Alex777
quote:
So you are literally trying to absolve Hitler's actions.
Yeah, I bungled that phrasing. Changed it.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 1:17 pm to Ag Zwin
quote:
You're a delusional idiot, though, if you ignore that the seeds for Hitler were sowed (to a large degree) by the terms of Versailles.
Dear Lord just stop.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 1:18 pm to trinidadtiger
quote:
He told you what would happen, you did it anyway, and now are AGHAST that he has responded in such fashion.
Why does Putin get to decide what happens with Ukraine?
Posted on 3/5/22 at 1:20 pm to Lsupimp
quote:
Dear Lord just stop.
Which do you dispute: The role of Versailles in creating Hitler, or the parallel here?
Posted on 3/5/22 at 1:21 pm to trinidadtiger
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/10/22 at 2:42 pm
Posted on 3/5/22 at 1:21 pm to Ag Zwin
The delusional idiot part.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 1:24 pm to Lsupimp
quote:
The delusional idiot part.
I already took out the "idiot" part. Came here straight from Twitter and forgot to downshift.
The "delusional" part stands.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 1:33 pm to Ag Zwin
So you think that my actual comments are delusional? Or you think that the strawman you built and inexplicably attributed to me about Versailles and the Nazis is delusional?
Posted on 3/5/22 at 1:37 pm to trinidadtiger
This is pure delusion. Ukraine has done nothing to warrant an invasion. This is a power grab by a tyrannical despot who is quickly becoming a war criminal. Nothing more.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 1:44 pm to Lsupimp
quote:he's right. Pick up a history book sometime. The economic hardships from the Versailles treaty combined with the effects of the Great Depression led directly to hitler coming to power. He mentioned the treaty in damn near every public speech. He used the German peoples anger to gain power and kill millions of people. That doesn't make it right but it's factual
Dear Lord just stop.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 1:48 pm to OGtigerfan87
quote:
This is pure delusion. Ukraine has done nothing to warrant an invasion. This is a power grab by a tyrannical despot who is quickly becoming a war criminal. Nothing more.
Again, you people continue think we are saying Russia had a right to do this. Boggles my mind that you believe that is what is being said.
Posted on 3/5/22 at 1:51 pm to Adam Banks
quote:Fortunately it did not get that far, else we'd be in WWIII.
When did Ukraine join NATO?
Posted on 3/5/22 at 2:01 pm to UncleFestersLegs
And not a single person has EVER debated this point. And yet you act like you discovered life on Mars.
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