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Message
re: ahmaud arbery trial has started. its live now.
Posted on 11/5/21 at 3:38 pm to Flats
Posted on 11/5/21 at 3:38 pm to Flats
quote:
Then you are a really stupid person.
Of course I am
Finally something we both agree on. To believe it possible that BOTH a gbi agent and one of the defendants lied about this you can not be very bright.
1
Posted on 11/5/21 at 3:43 pm to the808bass
quote:
It’s not enough to believe Arbery burglarized a house. They needed to have direct knowledge of it.
This is something that you probably won't gain much ground on because most people don't realize how much legal nuance there is to this subject when you get inside the courtroom, understandably and reasonably so.
I'm not having any luck linking it, but anyone interested can copy/paste and web search the following Georgia case and it sheds a good bit of light on the subject of citizens arrest in that state.
Smith v Georgia No. A11A1718
This post was edited on 11/5/21 at 3:45 pm
Posted on 11/5/21 at 3:47 pm to davyjones
Is that the case where the store employee couldn’t effect a citizen’s arrest despite being told about a theft?
Posted on 11/5/21 at 3:50 pm to the808bass
"if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge."
arbery was seen coming out of the house and running away when confronted.
arbery was seen coming out of the house and running away when confronted.
Posted on 11/5/21 at 3:51 pm to the808bass
It references and relies upon the shoplifting case that I believe you're referring to.
Posted on 11/5/21 at 3:51 pm to the808bass
quote:That may be the case in which the employee was able to make a citizen's arrest for shoplifting despite NOT witnessing the crime because the thief admitted the crime to him.
Is that (Smith) the case where the store employee couldn’t effect a citizen’s arrest despite being told about a theft?
From that case, some people have been arguing that you can always make an arrest without witnessing the crime ... though that is the opposite of the Georgia court's ruling.
The Court actually said that "in his presence" and "within his immediate knowledge" were synonyms.
This post was edited on 11/5/21 at 4:00 pm
Posted on 11/5/21 at 3:54 pm to 511
quote:
arbery was seen coming out of the house and running away when confronted.
You can’t have direct knowledge of a crime that didn’t occur.
Posted on 11/5/21 at 3:55 pm to mouton
You obviously have a much larger emotional investment in this case than I do, but that's no cause to lie about what I said. The only point I made was that citing someone's membership in a state police force as some sort of evidence of their unimpeachable character is strange given what we've witnessed over the last several years. Now you can't make any hay out of that statement because everybody knows it's true, so you attempt to say I'm making a claim about the trial, or a statement made in the trial or whatever. That just makes you dishonest and a dick; it says nothing at all about my intelligence.
I might argue that assuming that a cop wouldn't lie in court just because they're a cop says something about someone's intelligence, but that's probably best left to another thread.
I might argue that assuming that a cop wouldn't lie in court just because they're a cop says something about someone's intelligence, but that's probably best left to another thread.
Posted on 11/5/21 at 3:57 pm to Flats
quote:
I might argue that assuming that a cop wouldn't lie in court just because they're a cop says something about someone's intelligence, but that's probably best left to another thread.
Ask a former cop and they will say that yes, they do lie when needed.
Posted on 11/5/21 at 3:59 pm to 511
quote:"
"if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge."
arbery was seen coming out of the house and running away when confronted.
He was not seen coming out of the house. The father said he was outside working on his boat and saw him run by their house.
And are you going to just ignore this?
[/quote]When a police officer who responded to the shooting asked Greg McMichael if Arbery had broken into a house, he told the officer: "That’s just it. I don’t know ... I don’t know.
Posted on 11/5/21 at 4:00 pm to the808bass
quote:
by the808bass
Here is probably the most significant finding in the case I cited on the issue of "immediate knowledge," and I believe it's pretty relevant to the Arbery case:
Significantly, Smith testified that he was not present when the money was allegedly taken. His suggestion that the victim had committed the theft was based upon mere speculation.
**Smith's conviction of false imprisonment was upheld.
Posted on 11/5/21 at 4:01 pm to Flats
Here it is again for you buddy:
I am pretty sure that implies you think it is possible .
quote:
So you think both the GBI agent and the defendant lied about this?
I have no idea
I am pretty sure that implies you think it is possible .
Posted on 11/5/21 at 4:05 pm to mouton
quote:It was another neighbor (Hispanic surname) who saw Arbery leaving the construction site.
He was not seen coming out of the house. The father said he was outside working on his boat and saw him run by their house.
And are you going to just ignore this?
The question is whether that information was conveyed to McMichael Sr or Jr and whether second-hand info like that would justify a citizen's arrest under the old statute.
Posted on 11/5/21 at 4:06 pm to mouton
LEOs most definitely "lie," in court, under oath or whenever necessary. I put lie in quotation marks because in the majority of such instances they themselves don't necessarily consider it a lie, but rather a "bending" of the truth and rules - but for a "righteous" purpose. Ends justify the means kinda thing. Happens very, very often.
Posted on 11/5/21 at 4:07 pm to the808bass
"a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion"
the house had been burglarized prior.
arbery ran when confronted. "reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion"
he was also on private property. he didnt have permission to be there. that is also against the law.
the house had been burglarized prior.
arbery ran when confronted. "reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion"
he was also on private property. he didnt have permission to be there. that is also against the law.
Posted on 11/5/21 at 4:10 pm to 511
quote:
"a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion"
the house had been burglarized prior.
arbery ran when confronted. "reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion"
he was also on private property. he didnt have permission to be there. that is also against the law.
I'm not certain that is reasonable. That is what the jury is for
Posted on 11/5/21 at 4:11 pm to 511
quote:
arbery ran when confronted. "reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion"
I see you are going to be an intellectual coward and ignore the fact that the McMichaels did not confront him or see him exit the house. They had no idea if he had been in the house that day or not.
You are also ignoring this quote from McMichael himself:
quote:
When a police officer who responded to the shooting asked Greg McMichael if Arbery had broken into a house, he told the officer: "That’s just it. I don’t know ... I don’t know.
Posted on 11/5/21 at 4:11 pm to davyjones
quote:I am acquainted with many LEOs, and (as a rule) they believe that they are doing the Lord's work and that the court system is just designed to prevent them from doing so.
LEOs most definitely "lie," in court, under oath or whenever necessary. I put lie in quotation marks because in the majority of such instances they themselves don't necessarily consider it a lie, but rather a "bending" of the truth and rules - but for a "righteous" purpose. Ends justify the means kinda thing. Happens very, very often.
With that attitude, it is not difficult to convince yourself that it is OK to "fudge" just a bit, in furtherance of "justice" as you see it. Not all of them do so, but too many.
Posted on 11/5/21 at 4:12 pm to The Eric
quote:
But I wish the media would stop referring to Arbery as a jogger. The dude is a criminal and was murdered by other criminals
I haven't followed this, but I haven't seen any discussion about the fact that he was jogging, from the aspect of what was he going to steal from a house under construction that he could carry off while jogging.
This post was edited on 11/5/21 at 4:14 pm
Posted on 11/5/21 at 4:12 pm to 511
Seeing a guy run by the front of your house does not equal:
quote:
"a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion"
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