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A point about socialism v capitalism that isn’t made nearly enough by capitalists
Posted on 5/31/21 at 12:30 pm
Posted on 5/31/21 at 12:30 pm
Under a capitalist system, anyone or any group that wishes to practice socialism can do so. Communes, co-op businesses, 100% profit sharing enterprises can all be created by voluntary associations of people who are disgusted with the notion of profit.
On the other hand, you cannot have a capitalist business model under socialism.
To put it another way, capitalism is a misnomer.
When we refer to “capitalism”, we are actually referring to an economic system free from force. “Capitalist” modes of production become the prevalent model because it ends up being more efficient than enterprises run as co-ops, but any economic organization is allowed under capitalism, as long as its voluntary
“Capitalism” as we commonly understand it includes both capitalist enterprises AND all other voluntary economic associations.
On the other hand, you cannot have a capitalist business model under socialism.
To put it another way, capitalism is a misnomer.
When we refer to “capitalism”, we are actually referring to an economic system free from force. “Capitalist” modes of production become the prevalent model because it ends up being more efficient than enterprises run as co-ops, but any economic organization is allowed under capitalism, as long as its voluntary
“Capitalism” as we commonly understand it includes both capitalist enterprises AND all other voluntary economic associations.
20
Posted on 5/31/21 at 12:31 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Good point
Posted on 5/31/21 at 12:34 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
I always thought that the uber rich liberals are hypocritical when they don't voluntarily pay higher taxes.
I'm not sure it is now, but there used to be a line on the tax forms where you could add more taxes than you owed.
Where is this virtue signaling from the left?
I'm not sure it is now, but there used to be a line on the tax forms where you could add more taxes than you owed.
Where is this virtue signaling from the left?
Posted on 5/31/21 at 12:35 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Right. I can choose NOT to capitalize on my skills and talents in a capitalist system. Or I can choose to strive for self-actualization. The key word is "choose".
Posted on 5/31/21 at 12:37 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Socialism is an economic system that must be established by govt.
Capitalism existed before govt existed.
Capitalism existed before govt existed.
Posted on 5/31/21 at 12:37 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
When we refer to “capitalism”, we are actually referring to an economic system free from force. “
Correct, the way we use the term, capitalism has actually existed since the first time humans traded or used money.
Posted on 5/31/21 at 12:40 pm to Stingray
I frame all my debates on this as Capitalism/Freedom vs Socialism/Totalitarianism.
Posted on 5/31/21 at 12:42 pm to Stingray
quote:
I frame all my debates on this as Capitalism/Freedom vs Socialism/Totalitarianism.
Was just coming to say that free market capitalism is the most pure form of democracy there is. You don't like it, you take your "vote" elsewhere.
Posted on 5/31/21 at 12:46 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
This is why the Irish response to Biden’s corporate tax pitch last week was so important. Ireland exercised choice while they still have a choice, and made clear to Biden that corporations that want to escape his taxation will still have a place to escape to.
They’ll literally capitalize on the situation that Biden creates.
They’ll literally capitalize on the situation that Biden creates.
This post was edited on 5/31/21 at 12:49 pm
Posted on 5/31/21 at 1:03 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
How is capitalism characterized by a tiny group controlling ALL of the capital different from socialism? I'll wait.
Posted on 5/31/21 at 1:14 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Under a capitalist system, anyone or any group that wishes to practice socialism can do so. Communes, co-op businesses, 100% profit sharing enterprises can all be created by voluntary associations of people who are disgusted with the notion of profit.
I use this all the time.
I was in an argument with a man bun about this. He pointed out some bakery that was sold to the workers and how socialism works. I was like you and 10 friends can open a bakery and share the profits.
Capitalism isn't stopping you. My suspicion is that guys like him don't actually want to work or want the risk of being in charge even if shared with a bunch of people.
This post was edited on 5/31/21 at 1:18 pm
Posted on 5/31/21 at 1:15 pm to TheHarahanian
quote:
They’ll literally capitalize on the situation that Biden creates.
How does that work within the EU?
Posted on 5/31/21 at 1:25 pm to squid_hunt
quote:
They’ll literally capitalize on the situation that Biden creates.
How does that work within the EU?
When the Irish Pres says he’ll hold corporate tax at 12.5% for at least the next 5 to 10 years, I assume he has the authority to make the statement and knows about any limitations coming from EU membership that would affect it. He said it anyway. I expect the corporate tax rate there to be 12.5% for a while, as he said, and Biden can suck it.
Posted on 5/31/21 at 1:31 pm to LSUStar
quote:
How isquote:different from socialism? I'll wait.
capitalism characterized by a tiny group controlling ALL of the capital
Where does this exist?
That actually IS what socialism devolves to, or should I say never escapes from, assuming the socialists ever really wanted anything more than total control.
Posted on 5/31/21 at 1:36 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Simple. Capitalist want equal economic oppertunity for all. Socialist want equal economic and social misery for all.
Posted on 5/31/21 at 1:43 pm to Zach
quote:Free trade exists without governments but capitalism can't exist without government in a true sense. Government is involved in a limited capacity but is still necessary, according to Adam Smith, to maintain order and to protect the rights of private ownership.
Socialism is an economic system that must be established by govt.
Capitalism existed before govt existed.
This is an odd argument (from OP) because you can practice free trade in a communist system and you can practice socialism or Communism in a capitalist system. But that's not the real issue.
This post was edited on 5/31/21 at 1:46 pm
Posted on 5/31/21 at 1:43 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Capitalism was the word Marx used for Liberty.
Posted on 5/31/21 at 1:45 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
I always bring this up in discussions with leftists and they just re-define what "capitalism" is.
Posted on 5/31/21 at 1:46 pm to LSUStar
quote:
How is capitalism characterized by a tiny group controlling ALL of the capital
Point made
Posted on 5/31/21 at 1:47 pm to Pecker
quote:
Free trade exists without governments but capitalism can't exist without government in a true sense. Government is involved in a limited capacity but is still necessary, according to Adam Smith, to maintain order and to protect the rights of private ownership.
That's not economics. That's the judicial system. It's required in everything to settle disputes. That's why even the most extreme libertarians (me) see courts as a legitimate purpose of govt.
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