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re: A fact worth remembering: Those who don't believe in God argue against absolutes
Posted on 10/5/20 at 9:37 am to Harry Rex Vonner
Posted on 10/5/20 at 9:37 am to Harry Rex Vonner
Those "Priest's" that are butt whole surfers have a lock down on morals.
Krist on a KRACKER!
1
Posted on 10/5/20 at 9:37 am to kingbob
quote:
Arguing against absolutes isn’t purely the propensity of atheists.
Many atheists only pretend to be atheists
Cowards try to not reveal their true nature until they've lied and murdered their way to a safer tier
Posted on 10/5/20 at 9:38 am to omarlittle
Posted on 10/5/20 at 9:38 am to Harry Rex Vonner
quote:
Straight from the explanations of CS Lewis right there. CS Lewis, who was an Oxford atheists brought to belief in God by JRR Tolkien, when challenged to explain the wonderment of existence.
So...since I'm busy, I'm going to cut the chase.
Since you've posted this on the Poliboard, I'm assuming you think this is political. And since there have already been a handful of nonbelievers that have told you point blank they disagree with your assertion and that they are on the right side of the fence...what would you have us do? We're not going to suddenly start believing what you do...should we leave? Should we go find another party...another side of the aisle since you don't think we're worthy of being in your tent?
Much like sports, I'm done being told, "I hate you" by people who also expect to keep me around. So spit it out...where do you want us right leaning nonbelievers to go in your worldview?
Posted on 10/5/20 at 9:39 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:
But they know there is a right and wrong, they just don't want to accept it.
Now that's absolutely fair in a general sense. It's why people like Sam Harris spend so much time attempting to come up with an alternative objective source, because he does believe in objective morality. His worldview just won't let him acknowledge its source.
Posted on 10/5/20 at 9:39 am to Flats
quote:
Well, he is the only God, creator of Heaven and Earth...so.....yes, He is.
It’s all personal opinion, even for believers. It’s their opinion that God exists, because they can’t present that argument as fact. So really, we’re all in the same boat.
Posted on 10/5/20 at 9:39 am to BlackHelicopterPilot
quote:
I am not a believer. Yet, I have a very firm grasp on right and wrong and care about others.
I don’t believe in attaching politics to this conversation unless there is an exigent need; however, without a rooting in some kind of Absolute Truth (i.e. God), your definition of right and wrong is socially constructed. Therefore, it can change on a whim or a trend.
I say that as an agnostic.
Posted on 10/5/20 at 9:40 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:
our conscience is the part of God in us that have a conscience
if this argument was true, then we wouldn't need religion
the fact of the matter is the opposite is true. our true nature isn't very optimal with respect to society and society has forged morals upon us. that's why you see similar religious rules among similar regions/epochs (and even spread further)
we learned morality via trial and error to advance society, and it's specifically to mute some of our innate desires. "conscience" was created through society, not God, and if our innate nature was "conscience", then that poses a lot of problems with man's historical development on earth (gods or no gods)
Posted on 10/5/20 at 9:41 am to monsterballads
Then who holds you accountable to what is right?
Corrupt governments?
Corrupt governments?
Posted on 10/5/20 at 9:41 am to TigerBandTuba
quote:
Georgia Guidestones
I would love to hear your take on these
Google it and read what they say
Posted on 10/5/20 at 9:42 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
your definition of right and wrong is socially constructed.
this argument specifically applies to the actual practice of any religion
the very basis of reading the words (which, mind you, is a very recent phenomena for humanity) requires the same social construction. the WORDS are constructed
Posted on 10/5/20 at 9:45 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
this argument specifically applies to the actual practice of any religion
the very basis of reading the words (which, mind you, is a very recent phenomena for humanity) requires the same social construction. the WORDS are constructed
Semiotics are inherently human. The difference though with religion is the acknowledgement of there being a Truth and higher governing entity. We may not know the exact definition of right and wrong but our morals attempt to progress toward it.
This post was edited on 10/5/20 at 9:46 am
Posted on 10/5/20 at 9:45 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
this argument specifically applies to the actual practice of any religion
True, but you're starting to mix epistemology and ontology.
Posted on 10/5/20 at 9:48 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
Since you've posted this on the Poliboard, I'm assuming you think this is political. And since there have already been a handful of nonbelievers that have told you point blank they disagree with your assertion and that they are on the right side of the fence...what would you have us do? We're not going to suddenly start believing what you do...should we leave? Should we go find another party...another side of the aisle since you don't think we're worthy of being in your tent?
Much like sports, I'm done being told, "I hate you" by people who also expect to keep me around. So spit it out...where do you want us right leaning nonbelievers to go in your worldview?
You mean since you're busy, and throwing a temper tantrum?
I'm ready for a third party. A real one. European nations have several who are players. We can do that too in America.
What does "right leaning" mean to you? That you don't give a shite about 18 million human beings being starved in Yemen? Was it "Nixon's War" after LBJ got us into it? Do we blame "the right" for Woodrow Wilson and FDR getting us into two world wars and Trumann dropping the atomic bomb? Does Clinton get a pass because he sent American troops into war for profit under the guise of NATO?
Posted on 10/5/20 at 9:48 am to Flats
quote:
True, but you're starting to mix epistemology and ontology.
not really b/c my comments are much more specific, as a response, to a specific comment
using "social construction" as an argument applies to religions as well, in the actual practice of it on earth
i'm not talking about this supposed "word of god". i'm talking about the day-to-day practice of that word
Posted on 10/5/20 at 9:48 am to Harry Rex Vonner
atheist here. Pro life and for law and order. I can have morals and not be religious
Posted on 10/5/20 at 9:49 am to Flats
After reading this thread, I'm convinced OP is a troll.
That said, growing up Catholic (I don't really believe anymore), I always said that even if religion was made up nonsense, it sets up a good moral framework for kids to learn from.
That said, growing up Catholic (I don't really believe anymore), I always said that even if religion was made up nonsense, it sets up a good moral framework for kids to learn from.
Posted on 10/5/20 at 9:49 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
Semiotics are inherently human. The difference though with religion is the acknowledgement of there being a Truth and higher governing entity
again, see my comment above
i'm not talking about this Truth. i'm specifically talking about the practice of the religion surrounding that Truth, on earth, by humans
quote:
We may not know the exact definition of right and wrong but our morals attempt to progress toward it.
sounds like what the non-believers are literally arguing
Posted on 10/5/20 at 9:52 am to Harry Rex Vonner
quote:
Over 18 million being starved to death. "Ho hum" says the wealthy elite and their upper middle class servants.
Man you need to shoot a little higher than people raising a family in a suburb to focus your misplaced disappointment with how your life turned out.
Posted on 10/5/20 at 9:52 am to Harry Rex Vonner
quote:
throwing a temper tantrum?
Wait...was that NOT what your OP was?
quote:
I'm ready for a third party. A real one. European nations have several who are players. We can do that too in America.
Great...that didn't answer my question for TODAY though, did it? You seem angry TODAY. Where do you want atheists who lean right to go this election cycle?
quote:
What does "right leaning" mean to you?
That when I take issues one at a time, rather than collectively based on team color, I tend to find myself agreeing with the right side more often than not, though thanks to guys like you and this stated worldview, I find myself leaning more to the left on issues than I ever did as a younger man.
quote:
That you don't give a shite about 18 million human beings being starved in Yemen? Was it "Nixon's War" after LBJ got us into it? Do we blame "the right" for Woodrow Wilson and FDR getting us into two world wars and Trumann dropping the atomic bomb? Does Clinton get a pass because he sent American troops into war for profit under the guise of NATO?
Um...what? Try and stay focused.
This post was edited on 10/5/20 at 9:54 am
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