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5 Things You May Not Know About Lincoln, Slavery and Emancipation

Posted on 6/5/17 at 7:16 am
Posted by Eli Goldfinger
Member since Sep 2016
32785 posts
Posted on 6/5/17 at 7:16 am
History Channel

quote:

Though Lincoln saw himself as working alongside the abolitionists on behalf of a common anti-slavery cause, he did not count himself among them.


quote:

Though Lincoln argued that the founding fathers’ phrase “All men are created equal” applied to blacks and whites alike, this did not mean he thought they should have the same social and political rights.

Lincoln made his position clear. “I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races,” he began, going on to say that he opposed blacks having the right to vote, to serve on juries, to hold office and to intermarry with whites.


quote:

For much of his career, Lincoln believed that colonization—or the idea that a majority of the African-American population should leave the United States and settle in Africa or Central America—was the best way to confront the problem of slavery.


quote:

Lincoln didn’t see the Civil War as a struggle to free the nation’s 4 million slaves from bondage. Emancipation, when it came, would have to be gradual, and the important thing to do was to prevent the Southern rebellion from severing the Union permanently in two.


quote:

Since Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation as a military measure, it didn’t apply to border slave states like Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky and Missouri, all of which had remained loyal to the Union. Lincoln also exempted selected areas of the Confederacy that had already come under Union control in hopes of gaining the loyalty of whites in those states. In practice, then, the Emancipation Proclamation didn’t immediately free a single slave, as the only places it applied were places where the federal government had no control—the Southern states currently fighting against the Union.



War between the states?
War of northern aggression?
This post was edited on 6/5/17 at 7:18 am
Posted by ILeaveAtHalftime
Member since Sep 2013
2889 posts
Posted on 6/5/17 at 7:17 am to
MOAR CIVIL WAR THREADS


ETA: this one will devolve like all the others
This post was edited on 6/5/17 at 7:18 am
Posted by cajunangelle
Member since Oct 2012
146752 posts
Posted on 6/5/17 at 7:37 am to
Posted by BamaFan365
Member since Sep 2011
2347 posts
Posted on 6/5/17 at 7:38 am to
Take it down!!
Posted by CoachDon
Louisville
Member since Sep 2014
12409 posts
Posted on 6/5/17 at 7:43 am to
1. Isn't this a re-post from last week?

2. Seriously, how many people that read multiple accounts of history, didn't already know a majority of this?

It's only revisionist history to the dolts that don't seek information from a myriad of sources on the same subject matter.
Posted by WhiskeyPapa
Member since Aug 2016
9277 posts
Posted on 6/5/17 at 7:55 am to
quote:

Though Lincoln argued that the founding fathers’ phrase “All men are created equal” applied to blacks and whites alike, this did not mean he thought they should have the same social and political rights. Lincoln made his position clear. “I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races,” he began, going on to say that he opposed blacks having the right to vote, to serve on juries, to hold office and to intermarry with whites.


Lincoln did support the franchise for blacks.

Abraham Lincoln
Executive Mansion Washington D.C.
March 13, 1864



Hon. Michael Hahn

My dear Sir:

I congratulate you on having fixed your name in history as the first—free—state Governor of Louisiana. Now you are about to have a Convention which, among other things, will probably define the elective franchise. I barely suggest for your private consideration, whether some of the colored people may not be let in—as, for instance, the very intelligent, and especially those who have fought gallantly in our ranks. They would probably help, in some trying time to come, to keep the jewel of liberty within the family of freedom. But this is only a suggestion, not to the public, but to you alone.

Yours truly

A. LINCOLN

--------------

"It is also unsatisfactory to some that the elective franchise is not given to the colored man. I would myself prefer that it were now conferred on the very intelligent, and on those who serve our cause as soldiers."

4/11/65

The neo-rebs always want to take some quotes by Lincoln and ignore others.
Posted by WhiskeyPapa
Member since Aug 2016
9277 posts
Posted on 6/5/17 at 7:57 am to
quote:

For much of his career, Lincoln believed that colonization—or the idea that a majority of the African-American population should leave the United States and settle in Africa or Central America—was the best way to confront the problem of slavery.


Not true. He thought it was the best way to have harmony between the races.
Posted by Homesick Tiger
Greenbrier, AR
Member since Nov 2006
54209 posts
Posted on 6/5/17 at 7:58 am to
quote:

He thought it was the best way to have harmony between the races.


He wanted to send the blacks back to where they came from after the war. You going to deny that?

Doesn't sound like harmony to me.
Posted by WhiskeyPapa
Member since Aug 2016
9277 posts
Posted on 6/5/17 at 8:03 am to
quote:

Since Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation as a military measure, it didn’t apply to border slave states like Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky and Missouri, all of which had remained loyal to the Union. Lincoln also exempted selected areas of the Confederacy that had already come under Union control in hopes of gaining the loyalty of whites in those states.


Not true.

Lincoln included in the EP the states and areas where the federal power was obstructed. That is where his war powers as president extended. He had no power over slavery in the loyal states or in areas controlled by the federal government.

This a quote from the Spielberg Lincoln movie. Lincoln did hold these positions.

"I decided that the Constitution gives me war powers, but no one knows just exactly what those powers are. Some say they don't exist. I don't know. I decided I needed them to exist to uphold my oath to protect the Constitution, which I decided meant that I could take the rebel's slaves from them as property confiscated in war. That might recommend to suspicion that I agree with the rebs that their slaves are property in the first place. Of course I don't, never have, I'm glad to see any man free, and if calling a man property, or war contraband, does the trick... Why I caught at the opportunity. Now here's where it gets truly slippery. I use the law allowing for the seizure of property in a war knowing it applies only to the property of governments and citizens of belligerent nations. But the South ain't a nation, that's why I can't negotiate with'em. If in fact the Negroes are property according to law, have I the right to take the rebels' property from 'em, if I insist they're rebels only, and not citizens of a belligerent country? And slipperier still: I maintain it ain't our actual Southern states in rebellion but only the rebels living in those states, the laws of which states remain in force. The laws of which states remain in force. That means, that since it's states' laws that determine whether Negroes can be sold as slaves, as property - the Federal government doesn't have a say in that, least not yet then Negroes in those states are slaves, hence property, hence my war powers allow me to confiscate'em as such. So I confiscated 'em. But if I'm a respecter of states' laws, how then can I legally free'em with my Proclamation, as I done, unless I'm cancelling states' laws? I felt the war demanded it; my oath demanded it; I felt right with myself; and I hoped it was legal to do it, I'm hoping still. Two years ago I proclaimed these people emancipated - "then, hence forward and forever free."But let's say the courts decide I had no authority to do it. They might well decide that. Say there's no amendment abolishing slavery. Say it's after the war, and I can no longer use my war powers to just ignore the courts' decisions, like I sometimes felt I had to do. Might those people I freed be ordered back into slavery? That's why I'd like to get the Thirteenth Amendment through the House, and on its way to ratification by the states, wrap the whole slavery thing up, forever and aye. As soon as I'm able. Now. End of this month. And I'd like you to stand behind me. Like my cabinet's most always done."

LINK
Posted by Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
57958 posts
Posted on 6/5/17 at 8:04 am to
quote:

He wanted to send the blacks back to where they came from



quote:

Doesn't sound like harmony to me







Posted by WhiskeyPapa
Member since Aug 2016
9277 posts
Posted on 6/5/17 at 8:04 am to
quote:

He thought it was the best way to have harmony between the races.

He wanted to send the blacks back to where they came from after the war. You going to deny that?


Lincoln never suggested that anyone be forced out of the country.

The blacks didn't want to go to colonies. The idea was dropped.
Posted by el Gaucho
He/They
Member since Dec 2010
52977 posts
Posted on 6/5/17 at 8:08 am to
Everyone knows that Lincoln provoked the war against the south because he was bullied by southerners growing up
Posted by Homesick Tiger
Greenbrier, AR
Member since Nov 2006
54209 posts
Posted on 6/5/17 at 8:12 am to
quote:

Lincoln never suggested that anyone be forced out of the country.


You got proof of that? I got some proof of mine:

quote:

Historians have debated how seriously Lincoln took colonization efforts, but Mr. Magness said the story he uncovered, to be published next week in a book, “Colonization After Emancipation: Lincoln and the Movement for Black Resettlement,” shows the president didn’t just flirt with the idea, as historians had previously known, but that he personally pursued it for some time.



LINK

There's several more sites espousing the same sentiment.
Posted by AlaTiger
America
Member since Aug 2006
21121 posts
Posted on 6/5/17 at 8:14 am to
Very selective reading of Lincoln. He said some things at certain times for political expediency. These items are far from his actual overall perspective.
Posted by Eli Goldfinger
Member since Sep 2016
32785 posts
Posted on 6/5/17 at 8:16 am to
quote:

Everyone knows that Lincoln provoked the war against the south because he was bullied by southerners growing up


If they would have only let him use the women's outhouse on days when he was feeling womanly!
Posted by theunknownknight
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2005
57313 posts
Posted on 6/5/17 at 8:17 am to
The emancipation proclamation didn't free a single slave. If you deny that, then I know you're a brain washed imbicile.
Posted by ChineseBandit58
Pearland, TX
Member since Aug 2005
42596 posts
Posted on 6/5/17 at 8:20 am to
quote:

The neo-rebs always want to take some quotes by Lincoln and ignore others.

Such as: Lincoln = "If I could maintain the union by freeing all the slaves, I would do that. If I could maintain the union by freeing none of the slaves, I would do that. If I could maintain the union by freeing some of the slaves and not freeing other of the slaves, I would do that."

The Emancipation Proclamation was a political document. It was not a conscience-driven document. Pretty much like Obama's "against it - unsure about it - fully in favor of it" evolutionary thoughts on 'homosexual marriage.'

You are a laughing stock
Posted by WhiskeyPapa
Member since Aug 2016
9277 posts
Posted on 6/5/17 at 8:20 am to
quote:

Lincoln didn’t see the Civil War as a struggle to free the nation’s 4 million slaves from bondage. Emancipation, when it came, would have to be gradual, and the important thing to do was to prevent the Southern rebellion from severing the Union permanently in two.


Essentially, yes.

In order to begin to -end- slavery, Lincoln took the position in 1860 that slavery would not be allowed into the western territories. Slavery needed to expand to remain economically viable. Right after his election, representatives of the Slave Power approached his team – was Lincoln serious about this blocking slavery from the territories?

And he responded: “Hold onto this position as with a chain of steel.”

South Carolina issued its secession documents just a couple of weeks later.



Posted by ChineseBandit58
Pearland, TX
Member since Aug 2005
42596 posts
Posted on 6/5/17 at 8:35 am to
quote:

In order to begin to -end- slavery, Lincoln took the position in 1860 that slavery would not be allowed into the western territories. Slavery needed to expand to remain economically viable. Right after his election, representatives of the Slave Power approached his team – was Lincoln serious about this blocking slavery from the territories?

And he responded: “Hold onto this position as with a chain of steel.”

South Carolina issued its secession documents just a couple of weeks later.

OK - now THIS /\ I agree with you on.

For any cultural change to take place it absolutely MUST take place gradually and be brought about from within. You cannot legislate culture.

Was slavery bad?? well of course it was - but it was the way the human race evolved from its origins.

The only real heroes of the Civil War era were the abolitionists. They saw the evil of slavery and set out to change people's minds.
Posted by WhiskeyPapa
Member since Aug 2016
9277 posts
Posted on 6/5/17 at 8:35 am to
quote:

The neo-rebs always want to take some quotes by Lincoln and ignore others.

Such as: Lincoln = "If I could maintain the union by freeing all the slaves, I would do that. If I could maintain the union by freeing none of the slaves, I would do that. If I could maintain the union by freeing some of the slaves and not freeing other of the slaves, I would do that."

The Emancipation Proclamation was a political document. It was not a conscience-driven document. Pretty much like Obama's "against it - unsure about it - fully in favor of it" evolutionary thoughts on 'homosexual marriage.'



"I am naturally anti-slavery. If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong. I can not remember when I did not so think, and feel. And yet I have never understood that the Presidency conferred upon me an unrestricted right to act officially upon this judgment and feeling. It was in the oath I took that I would, to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States. I could not take the office without taking the oath. Nor was it my view that I might take an oath to get power, and break the oath in using the power. I understood, too, that in ordinary civil administration this oath even forbade me to practically indulge my primary abstract judgment on the moral question of slavery. I had publicly declared this many times, and in many ways. And I aver that, to this day, I have done no official act in mere deference to my abstract judgment and feeling on slavery."

...I add a word which was not in the verbal conversation. In telling this tale I attempt no compliment to my own sagacity. I claim not to have controlled events, but confess plainly that events have controlled me. Now, at the end of three years struggle the nation's condition is not what either party, or any man devised, or expected. God alone can claim it. Whither it is tending seems plain. If God now wills the removal of a great wrong, and wills also that we of the North as well as you of the South, shall pay fairly for our complicity in that wrong, impartial history will find therein new cause to attest and revere the justice and goodness of God.

Yours truly,

A. Lincoln

4/4/64

LINK



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