re: 210 illegals have committed murder since 2020. Spare us the crying over two people in MN

quote:

---

You’re still collapsing distinct legal categories into one and then calling that a win. Yes, some immigration violations are criminal, entry crimes under §1325 and §1326, and only under specific circumstances. No one disputes that. But that is not the same as saying “everyone in the country illegally has committed a crime”, which is what people are claiming.

---

And your claim of illegals commit crimes at a less than Americans is wrong too. Every illegal border crossing... every entry on false premise... every false claim of needing "asylum"... every entry were there was no official "you may now enter the US" by truthful claims is criminal. Every one.

We even have a sitting US congresswoman that all signs point to being guilty under 8 1325. But alas... she get a law exemption.

And I'm still waiting on which offense I should be exempted from following.

quote:

---

I’m not “pro–illegal immigration.” That’s a lazy framing. I’m pro accurate definitions, proportional enforcement, and honest discussion. Pointing out that unlawful presence is a civil violation, that immigrants pay taxes, or that crime statistics don’t support blanket claims is not an endorsement of open borders. It’s rejecting exaggeration and fear-based arguments

---

Not enough there to argue with. Minor things, but overall agree.

quote:

---

You’re also conflating things that are distinct: Human trafficking, drug smuggling, and wage exploitation are serious crimes, committed by traffickers, cartels, and EMPLOYERS, not by default by every or even a majority of undocumented persons. Those crimes exist because of black markets and poor enforcement priorities, not because someone crossed a border and now magically became a criminal in every sense.

---

Don't believe I am conflating. I mean, we all know who commits the crimes and we all know who the victims are and of course, yes it will still happen. The point is, it will happen at a much lesser degree and would be easier to stem. Maybe not stop, but at least stem if the border were at least secure and we paid as much attention to immigration as we should. I mean, no nation is immune from these things, but most do not suffer this badly from it. I think we could all agree to that.

quote:

---

National sovereignty absolutely matters. Laws matter. But laws are not all criminal laws, and pretending they are doesn’t make enforcement better, it just makes the conversation dishonest. You can support immigration law, border control, and national sovereignty without pretending every undocumented immigrant is a violent criminal or defending policies that ignore reality. That’s the distinction you keep refusing to engage with.

---

Do not believe I ever refused to engage in any of the above. But still, our penalties for immigrating illegally are about as lenient as it gets. I am fine with that. I do believe there has to be a penalty however. All laws have prescribed penalties. Saying a law is or is not criminal is playing semantics. If I speed, I know I broke a law. I also know I am not a criminal. Still, there is no one asking for the penalty to be overlooked. Penalty must be paid or we are no longer a nation of law.

quote:

---

If you want to argue for stricter enforcement, argue for it. Just don’t do it by redefining words, attributing crimes wholesale, or insisting that correcting false claims means someone supports “all the negative stuff.” That’s not debate, it’s projection.

---

Ok. But you must see why I did that. You seem smart. Smart enough to at least converse with someone you may not agree with. I do however get it. I myself feel like nothing but trolling for a day or two. It's fun.

Not sure, what makes them "illegal" as you say. It's not a crime to exist. If they have a final removal order from a judge, they should be removed.

Removal order or they entered the country illegally. Either through a port of entry or bypassing a port of entry or over staying work/student visa. Are you agreeing illegal aliens should be removed or they should stay, if they don’t have a final removal order?

No one said it’s a ‘crime to exist.’ That’s a lazy emotional dodge copied and pasted from DU or Reddit.

What makes them illegal is that they broke the law to enter or remain in the country. Words still mean things (for those of us in the real world). If someone ignores immigration law, they are, by definition, here illegally.

quote:

---

Not sure, what makes them "illegal" as you say. It's not a crime to exist.

---

As someone who's been critical of the enforcement surrounding the Pretti shooting, this isn't a convincing argument. Trying to split hairs over civil violations vs criminal entry is a waste of time because the bottom line is that someone is here who shouldn't be. We don't have to tolerate "less severe" violations just because there are people who broke the rules more egregiously.

quote:

---

Not sure, what makes them "illegal" as you say. It's not a crime to exist

---

I'm saying they should get due process like everyone else in this country. You want ICE agents to be judge, jury, and prosecutor (or executioner if a citizen gets in the way). I want people to be able to present evidence and be judged based on all of the evidence, not just your speculation.

quote:

---

Great projection bro. I never cheered the arrest of people for being in public

---

I don't seem to remember your specific concerns about it either. I don't remember your concerns of "hypocrisy" then. Feel free to correct on that.

quote:

---

I cheered the arrest of people who broke the law

---

Sooooo we are basically wasting time in this thread then. Agree?

And I'm STILL waiting on the law that I'm supposed to be exempted from since there is a lot of that going around lately.