re: what size generator?

Get the smallest, most fuel efficient generator you can make due with, A 3000w inverter generator would work. If power goes out for several weeks like after Katrina, you’ll be happy you aren’t waiting in line for gas hours every day.....maybe some of you will remember those days.

A regular generac 5000 watt generator uses about .72 gallons of gas per hour at 50% load. That’s 17 gallons per day and it’s loud as heck.
You’ll easily double the run time using a smaller inverter generator, it’s quieter and you don’thave to worry about about frying your electronics.

Be careful with a toaster or coffee maker.

Those two will pull a ton of watts.

A toaster can pull up to 1500 watts as can a coffee maker

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If the neutral bus is connected to the ground, how would it end up back at the transformer? Seems like it would not be going back past earth to get to an open line at the power pole?

Not being a smart-arse, genuinly curious. Reason I ask is because I have done this before via suicide cord, and through some other questionable means when I absolutely had to in the past.

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Ideally it would go to ground at the grounding system closest to the source of the current but if that system is more resistive....soil is not as good, system is not as "sound" as it should be then it will go to ground where the path of least resistance takes it to ground. Ground rods driven at the service of a house tend to be in backfill and under the eaves of a house with gutters which means the soil is drier and less conductive. The foundation also impacts the distribution of current to ground...if the pad or pole mounted transformer is out in the open the soil is better and there is most likely less disturbance in the distribution of current to ground. In theory the current should go no further than the ground system at the house but current only flows in a theoretical path under ideal circumstances...very seldom in application.

I have used suicide cords also....I have also back fed a breaker and still do but I lift the neutral in the panel....and reconnect it with the main open or the disconnect open...but unless you are pretty adapt at lifting the neutral the chances of damaging it when reconnecting, especially aluminum wire, is pretty good...and a loose neutral will cause all manner of ill shite in the house...as big a pain in the arse as it is the best way is to run drop cords and plug and unplug shite outside of a 3 pole transfer switch...thats the best way but it can be costly....

Good post, thanks.

FWIW, next time I have to do this, I'll be bonding the generator frame to a grounding rod. I never thought about the neutral still being connected to the service.

i just looked up generac prices for the 24kw with the automatic transfer switches and they're not nearly as high as i thought. even the install isnt bad

ill probably get one when I buy my house

I checked my generac 7000R yesterday for shits and giggles. At 15 amps of pure resistive load (engine block heater) it was swinging 59-61 hz and 216-226 volts.

By marine generator standards, that's absolutely abysmal. To compare I tested a Honda harmony 2500 and had 60-61hz and 112-120 volts with a 5 amp squirrel cage motor. Also abysmal. I'm a little worried about running my brand new fancy icebox on that crap

i wish i could just go be an electrical apprentice for a year to learn all this shite

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Good post, thanks.

FWIW, next time I have to do this, I'll be bonding the generator frame to a grounding rod. I never thought about the neutral still being connected to the service.

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Be careful getting between the attachment point of the ground wire and the ground rod...even with the power off there could be a potential difference and you would be the path to ground if the system is compromised in any way. Get ahead of the attachment point....but once part of the circuit you could still be the path to ground. A welding clamp attached to the rod or conductor is the safest means of attachment...kirneys and channel locks not so much LOL...

From a safety POV not a bad idea but unless the neutral is open bonding the generator will not make a significant difference. The bond or grounding conductor is a separate duplicate path to ground for fault current that does not find its way to the grounded neutral. The bond (green or bare copper) is meant to electrically connect current carrying conductors such as the frame of a washing machine to ground should the current find its way to that conductor...other wise the entirety of the unbalanced load goes to ground through the path provided by the neutral in the case of a single phase circuit...120 volts in a residence...in the case of a multi phase circuit...240 volt single phase in a residence...the unbalanced load goes to ground via the second phase conductor during the period of the sinusoidal signal when that phase is neutral...60 times a second in the US. The unbalanced load is all of the current that is in a circuit...in the case of a 240 volt appliance it should be balanced between the "legs" (its all single phase in most residences....in most commercial applications there are actually 3 different phases). The unbalanced load is the difference between the current in the phase conductors at any given time...all circuits eventually share a common neutral so all homes are a multi wire branch circuit with a common neutral. It used to be that electricians would wire houses with individual multi wire branch circuits with a common neutral but most jurisdictions only allow this in very rare applications today and the NEC did away with it in 2000 I think.

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That totalled 10-12 amps as it fluctuated.

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Watts = Amps * Volts

12 * 120 = 1440.