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Started By
Message
re: Pine trees are a liability on land
Posted on 8/20/22 at 8:39 am to freshfromthefarm
Posted on 8/20/22 at 8:39 am to freshfromthefarm
Sawtooths grow quick and do well in when planted in a cutover.
Your sweet gums will magically appear so I would not worry about planting those.
Your sweet gums will magically appear so I would not worry about planting those.
1
Posted on 8/20/22 at 8:40 am to freshfromthefarm
As bad as the pine market is, from a financial return standpoint, I’d expect hardwood planting would be worse, given the extremely long maturity time. First gen saw timber is poor quality a lot of times, so you may be looking at 100 years. Anymore, timber has to be managed to make the property more attractive to the next buyer because appreciation is coming from the dirt, not the trees.
Posted on 8/20/22 at 8:49 am to LSUCouyon
quote:we are on the same page.
It’s really not the contractors, small timber companies/ “ wood dealers.”
They are at the mercy of the greedy assed larger companies with sawmills getting.
Posted on 8/20/22 at 9:03 am to sawtooth
quote:
Sawtooths
Sorry, but frick a sawtooth...
Posted on 8/20/22 at 9:11 am to White Bear
I agree they too are at the mercy of the mills. They are also thinly financed and often times in and out of the business.
At the end of the day it is all these government programs with timber subsidies that have over the decades resulted in too many trees. If you drive through Mississippi today everywhere you see a pine tree could have very well have been a cotton field in 1960–another government created misuse of the land as so much of that land was highly erodible.
At the end of the day it is all these government programs with timber subsidies that have over the decades resulted in too many trees. If you drive through Mississippi today everywhere you see a pine tree could have very well have been a cotton field in 1960–another government created misuse of the land as so much of that land was highly erodible.
Posted on 8/20/22 at 9:19 am to turkish
I really am just writing off the ten to twenty acres that I might plant hardwoods on.
The rest will be in pecans or cattle. I can take those to market anytime. I don’t want to mess with cows but I may have some land that I can’t feasible irrigate for pecans.
I am not fooling myself—the entire place is 150 acres—-it’s not going to be a big money making place. But if I get this pine timber sold I am through begging people to buy my stuff.
Pine trees suck for landowners and will for decades to come.
The rest will be in pecans or cattle. I can take those to market anytime. I don’t want to mess with cows but I may have some land that I can’t feasible irrigate for pecans.
I am not fooling myself—the entire place is 150 acres—-it’s not going to be a big money making place. But if I get this pine timber sold I am through begging people to buy my stuff.
Pine trees suck for landowners and will for decades to come.
Posted on 8/20/22 at 9:28 am to jimjackandjose
Think about $4 pulp—-$80-100 a friggin truck load.
How does anyone advocate for planting pine trees of any species with those economics?
Oh there are people who really don’t care and just want to hold land that will take the government handout and replant but there really is no economic future in southern pine unless you plan to build your own mill.
How does anyone advocate for planting pine trees of any species with those economics?
Oh there are people who really don’t care and just want to hold land that will take the government handout and replant but there really is no economic future in southern pine unless you plan to build your own mill.
Posted on 8/20/22 at 9:32 am to Cowboyfan89
I bet you that you cannot lay out a proposal to plant any species of pine in Louisiana or Mississippi that will return what a savings account would return to a landowner over the next thirty years at the average prices paid to timber sellers over the last five years.
The mills are going to continue to hold all the cards.
The mills are going to continue to hold all the cards.
Posted on 8/20/22 at 9:41 am to freshfromthefarm
quote:
At the end of the day it is all these government programs with timber subsidies that have over the decades resulted in too many trees. If you drive through Mississippi today everywhere you see a pine tree could have very well have been a cotton field in 1960
Yeah, and in the 1980s, that farmer may very well have lost the farm or put a bullet in his head because commodity prices were in the shitter--which is why those programs were created. So you can either have too many trees or dead or broke farmers.
quote:
another government created misuse of the land as so much of that land was highly erodible.
No, the misuse was farming the highly erodible land--not putting trees on it. That was the whole point of the programs.
They've gotten out of hand today and resulted in good farmland being taken out of production all for a quick buck (or by people that understood the programs and purposely bought land to enroll with no real intent to use it for farming), but the original intent was good.
Posted on 8/20/22 at 9:51 am to freshfromthefarm
quote:
I bet you that you cannot lay out a proposal to plant any species of pine in Louisiana or Mississippi that will return what a savings account would return to a landowner over the next thirty years at the average prices paid to timber sellers over the last five years.
Maybe not--I don't have a crystal ball to say what pine is going to return in 30 years, nor does anyone. But as I've clearly stated, it's not all about the value of the timber when it's something other than crappy pine plantations being discussed. If you want timber but don't want all your eggs in that basket in terms of income, there are other ways, and plenty of people that are successful at it.
But there's nothing wrong with hardwoods, either. As I said in my original post, though, if you are planting with wildlife as an objective, you'll want more than just 2 species. And as others have said, don't waste your time planting sweetgum--it's going to show up on its own eventually. Same for maple, water oak, Willow Oak, and green ash (although having any of that is pointless if the EAB is anywhere near you). Beyond that, it's hard to say what would be best to plant without knowing more about the site. But I would go with at least 5 or 6 species with a good mix of hard and soft mast for wildlife.
Posted on 8/20/22 at 9:55 am to freshfromthefarm
quote:
How does anyone advocate for planting pine trees of any species with those economics?
Because for some people, economics is not the sole driver in decision making, especially with something on a decades long rotation like timber.
I mean, if economics is the sole factor in land-based decisions, I'm going to go find some land that I can put into a mitigation bank or develop.
Why would I frick with timber sales when I can, in the right market, get $15k or more per credit for mitigation?
Posted on 8/20/22 at 10:25 am to LSUCouyon
I’m in your boat. I need to thin bad
Posted on 8/20/22 at 10:29 am to Cowboyfan89
quote:
or develop.
I understand what you are saying but frick development.
Posted on 8/20/22 at 10:57 am to GREENHEAD22
quote:
I understand what you are saying but frick development.
I agree 100%. Beyond building a house, I would never buy land with the sole purpose of developing it. But that's largely because I'm not a developer, and economics is not the primary driver for me. It's a factor, but not #1.
Posted on 8/20/22 at 11:32 am to Cowboyfan89
How many acres of pine do you own?
Posted on 8/20/22 at 12:00 pm to Cowboyfan89
quote:
Sorry, but frick a sawtooth...
LDWF used to pimp sawtooths like they were a magic tree. People still believe it too. Nonnative crap
Posted on 8/20/22 at 12:11 pm to Ron Cheramie
Doesn't LSU or MSST have some fast producing whites, reds and post now?
Posted on 8/20/22 at 12:11 pm to freshfromthefarm
quote:
How many acres of pine do you own?
None currently, but looking to buy land in the near future with the intention of managing it for longleaf.
Posted on 8/20/22 at 12:24 pm to Cowboyfan89
I got about 600 acres of old stand loblolly
Getting low bids if any. Wilkinson County MS
Getting low bids if any. Wilkinson County MS
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