Pine trees are a liability on land

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Does anyone have any experience with planting hardwoods? How many trees per acre? which species? ect. Since it will be such a small amount of land I may just mix sweet gums and nutall oaks or something more of a wildlife planting than ever expecting it to generate revenue.

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This is what NRCS exists for.

Planting 2 species isn't going to do anything for wildlife. Need a mix of soft mast and hard mast. NRCS typically recommends a ratio of hard mast to soft mast of no less than 60/40 and no more than 70/30. Hard mast is oaks, hickories, beech, etc. Soft mast is plums, persimmon, mulberry, black cherry, blueberries, etc. If for wildlife, 300-400 trees per acre is plenty.

More importantly, you need to consider what would grow best on the land. What was it historically? Hardwoods will likely grow well anywhere, but there is a big difference between an upland hardwood site and a bottomland hardwood.

And I'll just add this--there's nothing wrong with pine on the land. The problem is the overabundance of loblolly and slash pine plantations. A native longleaf, shortleaf, or slash pine savanna is actually one of my favorite "forest" communities because of the multi-use potential, even more so than any hardwood community. On the right site (i.e., where it would have occurred historically), it can be managed for wildlife, livestock, and timber. There's very few hardwood communities, especially in Louisiana, that can be managed for those 3 uses effectively.

If the site will grow pine cherry bark, southern red oak and “upland red and white oak species” would be better than nuttall. 12x12 302tpa is a std planting spacing for gov programs cro/wrp. Can widen if you like but you have to consider survival and the site conditions. 302 tap is mainly for converting bare asses ag land to hardwoods.

Those longleaf pines fall down like match sticks in hurricanes

Log then do nothing and you’ll have all the sweet gum you want

It's coming to row crop next. Look at Europe for our future.

I hate sweet gums too but you can sell them for pulp and they do grow fast.

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They suck for a land owner.

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And yet I know of at least 2 dozen landowners this year that are cleaning up hurricane damaged LOBLOLLY and putting it into longleaf with government assistance. And that's at the recommendation of their foresters, as well.

I've seen plenty of hardwood stands knocked to the ground from hurricanes recently, and I've seen longleaf stands that are virtually intact. There's very few timber stands that could have withstood the direct impacts of the storms that hit in the last 2 years.

It's not all about the timber when you are talking about longleaf, either. Nobody is getting good money for pine right now. I believe I overheard someone a few weeks ago say they were getting $4/ton for pulpwood. But a longleaf stand atleast has better multiuse potential than other pine or hardwoods. If price is an issue, may as well clear-cut it and sell it for development. I've seen plenty of people clearcutting land to put into pasture, and I've never understood it because there aren't many people making money in livestock, either. And depending on the land, it may cost even more money to make it into good pasture than to just put it back into trees.

I know a couple of foresters that have some hardwood stands being cut right now, but hardwood is a longer term investment than pine, and obviously not just a timber objective (like longleaf).

And to your point about the economical feasibility of thinning--how many loggers are going to be willing to thin 10-20 acres of anything? I've always heard the argument "its not worth my time" with small stands like that.

$40 per ton Hardwood is not pulpwood. That’s sawlog price.
Most of what I read here is true.
I manage only one tract, 1000 acres.
The sawmills are indeed screwing private landowners.
I did manage to get my client a $32 per tone price last December on a thinning of big pine. Earlier last year I was quoted $21 on the same tract. Thinned $188,000 on a 210 acre tract. Prime timber and still has a good final cut in 5-6 years if not a few more.
I was asked by another owner last year why the price was so low yet lumber prices were at record highs.
I sad it’s a 5 letter word, G R E E D!
We have several tracts that need first and second thinnings and can’t get anything done.

It’s really not the contractors, small timber companies/ “ wood dealers.”
They are at the mercy of the greedy assed larger companies with sawmills getting.