re: Need some advice on training my lab

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Skip “place”, I cc’d hundreds and never taught during cc. CC to “here”, “sit”, and move on to “hold”. KISS method, clear and concise works better than a bunch of unneeded terminology.

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Listen to this baw.

“Place” makes no sense. Like “sit-stay”-stay, place, etc is redundant.

When you say he avoided the place then you nicked him you are not reinforcing your are attempting to punish for what you see as a refusal. You then double down on the collar and give a continuous shock until he sometimes goes to the place you want and sometimes he doesn’t go. You are opposite in your thinking of what collar conditioning is. I am not watching your dog obviously but what you describe is confusion on your dog’s part. Introducing collar pressure when a dog is confused is a recipe for disaster

Yeah absolutely man cause I agree with you it could be a disaster and I have a feeling it’s headed down a bad path the way this is going lol

Get Bill Tarrants "Fetch It Up Pup"! Thank me later.

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WD is he LCD of training books

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Tried and true methods. Foolproof.

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modern day dog training

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WTF does that even mean? Zoomer training methods?

I have trained several with water dog and they were all cracker jack dogs.

I bet they were

Many ribbons

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I trained mine to the whistle.

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I used the collar to get there. Lightest stimulation possible.

You have some good advice in here, many of us here have trained and do train dogs.

I'll not add a lot new but echo some other thoughts, first and foremost the collar is to reinforce understood training not teach new commands. Collar conditioning should be done on commands that are ROCK solid 100% of the time like your command to here your dog is doing so well.

I don't care one way or another on training to "place" it's up to you but I would NOT CC (collar condition) on somthing that is a so so response from the dog. CC on sit, here, other commands you have not a shadow of a doubt he understands.

Also remember MANY dogs when they are nicked with the collar associate the spot of earth they were standing on as the cause of the nick. So if you are confused with place and nicking there it may make him even less likely to go where you are putting him.

Lastly think of the collar as most effective when your dog learns what a middle finger is. When you ask him to do something he is too far for you to get to him for a correction and then you remind him you can still correct him. E collars aren't a must but they make a lot of things much easier dog training. Dogs can and have been trained without them again it's a personal choice on with or without.

Lastly on the WD pissing match it's a very dated book it gives a system that has produced more good dogs than anything else because it's been around so long. The issue with WD isn't necessarily the system, where it's weak is when your dog has trouble with steps in it's system. There isn't enough in the book to help solve problems. The best way to solve problems is to find a group and train with them and even better a local HRC or AKC club and seek help there.

Seems like ProP is going to help you out a bunch but happy to help if needed.

I never necessarily teach "place" but I have always used positive reinforcement for getting my dogs to go to the place where I want them to go.

For example, when they are young I tell them "get in your bed" and have them lay on their bed, give them praise, and make them stay there. I do this a couple times a day but nothing crazy. As they grow up, I can get them to go to their bed no matter where we are.

When we begin training on the dog stand, instead of heeling, I say "get on your stand," and bring them over to it before any type of retrieve. The retrieve after being on the dog stand is the positive reinforcement they get for getting on their stand.

Same goes for "get in the boat" when we're at the launch or "get in your hole" when teaching the dog to get in the dog box in a pit blind.